Need Your Advice on .50 CVA Hawken Load Development Testing

Hi everyone,

I have a late 80's CVA Hawken 50 cal, made in Spain. I have not measured the twist yet. For the past 8-10 years, I hardly ever get out to muzzleloader season. It's after archery and two weeks of rifle season. So the deer are more timid and my wife had less patience for me being away for yet another season of deer hunting. Well, now I'm divorced, so I can start back up in the ML season. Which, climate/weather wise is my favorite time to hunt.

I have a mediocre load I put together with what ever round balls and patches I got in trade. It shoots decent at 50 yards. Hits a inside 6" at 100. Never fired this below 50 degrees. So, I'm looking to develop a better load. So I need help picking out a testing plan for this.

Goal:

1. Cold weather hunting. Should plan for 15-25 degrees that time of year and maybe a contingency for a bit colder.
2. Accurate at 100 yards. Is 3" possible?
3. Able to shoot 3 shots and retain accuracy without field cleaning.

I'll try anything to achieve those three goals.... well almost anything. I'm not gonna try that blackhorn 209.

I'm coming from a 'precision rifle' reloading background and mindset. That means testing is the way to determine anything. However, I need help figuring out what variables to test and in what order.

Variables:

1. Round Ball Manufacturer
2. Round Ball Size
3. Patch Size
4. Powder
5. Powder charge
6. Patch Lube
7. Percussion cap

Not sure If I really need to test all of those variables. That's where I need your expertise. Can I cut out #s 1, 6 and 7?

As for order of testing, what should I do? Roundball size first, then go with powder, then powder charge?

I apologize for the lengthy post. Over at the accurate shooter forums, they always want a billion pieces of information before they offer any help. Anyway, please help a rookie out.

Take a trip to the range. Take along whatever balls you have along with a selection of potential patch material. If you only have one size ball then start with that.

At the range, pick a patch material. Use any lube as long as it's not water based. Cut some patches square about 1.5 to 1.75 inch square lube them with a consistent amount of lube and shoot 4 or 5 shots with 90 grains of powder. Never mind accuracy just shoot and pick up the patches and examine them. If they are intact with no cuts or shredding at the area where the patched ball rides the bore, you have found the right ball/patch combo. If not, keep trying other patch and ball combinations until the recovered patches are as described above.

If you find no combinations that survive and the fit in the bore is not easy to load but not especially difficult. Then start thinking about conditioning the muzzle crown and bore.

dimner said:

Hi everyone,

I have a late 80's CVA Hawken 50 cal, made in Spain. I have not measured the twist yet. For the past 8-10 years, I hardly ever get out to muzzleloader season. It's after archery and two weeks of rifle season. So the deer are more timid and my wife had less patience for me being away for yet another season of deer hunting. Well, now I'm divorced, so I can start back up in the ML season. Which, climate/weather wise is my favorite time to hunt.

I have a mediocre load I put together with what ever round balls and patches I got in trade. It shoots decent at 50 yards. Hits a inside 6" at 100. Never fired this below 50 degrees. So, I'm looking to develop a better load. So I need help picking out a testing plan for this.

Goal:

1. Cold weather hunting. Should plan for 15-25 degrees that time of year and maybe a contingency for a bit colder.
2. Accurate at 100 yards. Is 3" possible?
3. Able to shoot 3 shots and retain accuracy without field cleaning.

I'll try anything to achieve those three goals.... well almost anything. I'm not gonna try that blackhorn 209.

I'm coming from a 'precision rifle' reloading background and mindset. That means testing is the way to determine anything. However, I need help figuring out what variables to test and in what order.

Variables:

1. Round Ball Manufacturer
2. Round Ball Size
3. Patch Size
4. Powder
5. Powder charge
6. Patch Lube
7. Percussion cap

Not sure If I really need to test all of those variables. That's where I need your expertise. Can I cut out #s 1, 6 and 7?

As for order of testing, what should I do? Roundball size first, then go with powder, then powder charge?

I apologize for the lengthy post. Over at the accurate shooter forums, they always want a billion pieces of information before they offer any help. Anyway, please help a rookie out.

Click to expand...

A couple of options. Change as many variables as possible every time you go shooting, and maybe you will get lucky and find that magic load combination. Or plenty of frustration.

Another option, as previously suggested, gather up the supplies you have of can get and go shooting, preferably with someone familiar with traditional muzzleloaders.

What to take to the range. You have a 50 caliber gun, find some .490” diameter lead balls. Find some tight weave 100% cotton patch material about .015” +/- thick. Pillow ticking or pre-packaged un-lubricated. For this first range trip, mix up some water and soap, maybe 2 or 3 to 1, or even 1 to 1 (you will be able to shoot as much as you want without swabbing between shots with this lube). Dish soap or Murphy’s. Start with a powder charge of 50 to 60 grains of powder. Get familiar with the mechanics of loading and shooting your gun. Get an accuracy (group size) baseline. Have fun. After you have cleaned your gun, report back. You will have questions.

If you like to read, purchase Dutch’s accuracy system. A good reference document. https://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

Your baseline accuracy is pretty good. I would use the same components and tweak one variable at a time. Also, use the same force every time seating the ball. I like to push down on the powder charge with a t-handle. 15-25 Degrees is tricky. If you have a chest freezer and a place to shoot you could chill the gun and try it. Use a light oil on the lockwork.

You have already received good solid advice. I will add my Spaniard made .50's with 1:48 twist (yours is most likely that twist rate as well) shoot better round ball groups with a lower charge. When I would get up there to 100+ grains the groups would open up.

I'll start by saying 3moa is about what I can do with a modern rifle and a 2moa red dot or good irons at 100 yards due to my eyes... so be sure your 100 yard expectations are within your limits - physical, equipment and skill

That said, my CVA .54 shot PRB best at 50 yards with milder loads (50gr 3Fg Schutzen) but the groups really fell apart for me at 100. Best for hunting that I found was the (house brand? unlabeled and generic, but cool cloth bag) maxis offered by Dixie Gun Works with Crisco as a lube over 75gr of the Schutzen. Little bit bigger groups at 50 but held it together out to 100, giving me groups that were about as good as I could expect between my eyes and the sights on the rifle and still very usable for deer/pig at that distance (4" or so)

dimner said:

Hi everyone,

I have a late 80's CVA Hawken 50 cal, made in Spain. I have not measured the twist yet. For the past 8-10 years, I hardly ever get out to muzzleloader season. It's after archery and two weeks of rifle season. So the deer are more timid and my wife had less patience for me being away for yet another season of deer hunting. Well, now I'm divorced, so I can start back up in the ML season. Which, climate/weather wise is my favorite time to hunt.

I have a mediocre load I put together with what ever round balls and patches I got in trade. It shoots decent at 50 yards. Hits a inside 6" at 100. Never fired this below 50 degrees. So, I'm looking to develop a better load. So I need help picking out a testing plan for this.

Goal:

1. Cold weather hunting. Should plan for 15-25 degrees that time of year and maybe a contingency for a bit colder.
2. Accurate at 100 yards. Is 3" possible?
3. Able to shoot 3 shots and retain accuracy without field cleaning.

I'll try anything to achieve those three goals.... well almost anything. I'm not gonna try that blackhorn 209.

I'm coming from a 'precision rifle' reloading background and mindset. That means testing is the way to determine anything. However, I need help figuring out what variables to test and in what order.

Variables:

1. Round Ball Manufacturer
2. Round Ball Size
3. Patch Size
4. Powder
5. Powder charge
6. Patch Lube
7. Percussion cap

Not sure If I really need to test all of those variables. That's where I need your expertise. Can I cut out #s 1, 6 and 7?

As for order of testing, what should I do? Roundball size first, then go with powder, then powder charge?

I apologize for the lengthy post. Over at the accurate shooter forums, they always want a billion pieces of information before they offer any help. Anyway, please help a rookie out.

Click to expand...

I have the same gun in .50 & .54. 1:66 is the twist in both. In the 80's I used Pyrodex RS and after much testing came up with for MY gun. 90 grains by volume RS, .495 round ball & .015 patch. Back in the 80's 3" groups were easy, now not so much. Now day's I use Triple 7 and still get good groups but I'm old.
Larry

Of the variables you mention I think 1 and 7 can safely be ignored.... I doubt a Hornady, Speer or cast lead ball (if truly pure lead and the same diameter) will have any effect on accuracy, same with percussion caps... if you use the same ones all the time you should be fine.

There are many others here with years and years more experience in precision target work so take their advice.

Good luck finding a solid accurate hunting load.