Anyone here have experience with Military Heritage .com ML's?

I see them advertised online, and in several magaizne. I am getting an itch for a smooth flinter, and these prices look very affordable. All you have to do is drill a touch hole or drill and tap it for a liner. They have threaded breech plugs, and hardened frizzens. All feedback appreciated, from someone who has owned one of these.

I will not own an India origin musket that requires me to drill the touch hole. I will buy, and have bought several, India origin muskets that are shipped to me ready to fire black powder. My reasoning is that if I drill the touch hole, I am converting it to fire, rather than the company where it was bought. Yes, a person can conduct a crude pressure test, and some people mistakenly call that proofing the barrel, but it's still just a crude test.

LD

samk said:

I see them advertised online, and in several magaizne. I am getting an itch for a smooth flinter, and these prices look very affordable. All you have to do is drill a touch hole or drill and tap it for a liner. They have threaded breech plugs, and hardened frizzens. All feedback appreciated, from someone who has owned one of these.

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samk said:

I see them advertised online, and in several magaizne. I am getting an itch for a smooth flinter, and these prices look very affordable. All you have to do is drill a touch hole or drill and tap it for a liner. They have threaded breech plugs, and hardened frizzens. All feedback appreciated, from someone who has owned one of these.

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I own a NWTG and a FDC from them. I prefer to install touch hole liners, so when I drill them I know they are in the right location. Just treat these guns a kit. There will be some work to do to get them up and going

Loyalist Dave said:

I will not own an India origin musket that requires me to drill the touch hole. I will buy, and have bought several, India origin muskets that are shipped to me ready to fire black powder. My reasoning is that if I drill the touch hole, I am converting it to fire, rather than the company where it was bought. Yes, a person can conduct a crude pressure test, and some people mistakenly call that proofing the barrel, but it's still just a crude test.

LD

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I feel as @Loyalist Dave feels. If I have to drill a touch hole in a a barrel made of steel of unknown origin, then I would pass on that wall hanging replica. I too have India origin muskets from Loyalist Arms that were delivered with the touch hole drilled. I did drill the touch hole when it comes to the touch hole in my 183 Harper's Ferry rifle with a Colerain barrel, my Derringer rifle with a Getz barrel and will drill the touch hole for my Dave Kennedy North Carolina Replica with an Ed Rayl barrel.

I have several smooth bore guns from Military Heritage as they fitted my budget. All have required work to be usable but they work acceptably for me once the necessary work is done.
Drilling the flash vent was the easy job but on pinned barrel guns the barrel needs to come off and the pinholes in the barrel lugs slotted to allow the barrel to move with changes in heat from shooting. The lug slots in the stock need to be deepened allowing the stock to be clear of the lugs also. The breech plugs on each of my guns needed a deepened slot to allow the correct position for the flash vent and good access to the charge, I know a fellow with a good barrel vice to take out the plugs. The lock tumbler on each needed a shim on the full cock notch to give a reasonable trigger pull. The ramrod will have to be replaced if wood. I bought hickory rods from TOW.
I have no concerns about the quality of the steel in my gun and those purchasing Indian guns with the flash hole drilled are getting a gun worked over by the seller as all Indian guns leave India as Decorative wall hangers to avoid breaking Indian laws. They are indeed kits but fun to work on and shoot after the work is done!
LBL

My question regarding touch holes is; whats the difference with India guns that have the touch hole drilled, vs those that you would have to drill yourself? Isnt the metal of the same questionable origin either way?

I see used Pedersoli Indian Trade guns on this site for sale for not much more than what an Indian made gun sells for. I have one and love it. Have a yard sale, sell an unmentionable, save a few more bucks and skip the potential problems. I looked at those Indian made also but they have way too many negatives for my wallet or skill set.

Sidney Smith said:

My question regarding touch holes is; whats the difference with India guns that have the touch hole drilled, vs those that you would have to drill yourself? Isnt the metal of the same questionable origin either way?

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We automatically think don’t buy a gun without a touch hole. But they sell them that way for marketing
As ‘bad’ as these are we don’t get much in the way of reports of properly loaded properly maintained Indian guns blowing up. I used to say I would only buy from middlesex village or loyalist arms to get a gun that’s shootable. I don’t know if that’s true now. I’ve never bought a Indian gun but truely I think I would trust one that I put my own touch hole in and loaded and cleaned properly
Of course we live in a world of risk, I would rather not live looking over my shoulder and scared of my shadow

The steel used in the guns sold by Military Heritage is a modern metal much stronger than in original guns. After having breech plugs out and looking the barrels over inside and out I see no issues other than they are not perfect copies of originals. They are probably assembled close to how originals were though with each gun being slightly different.
I have as close a copy of an original gun as I felt I could afford that works for me. I had to overcome the prejudice that I read in many posts on this forum but it worked for me.
Indian guns are not high end but they can be made to give good service without concern they are unsafe.
That is strictly my take on them YMMV.
LBL

I ahve owned several , never had one blow up. They have all functioned fine after some minor to significant tinkering. Problems have ranged from poorly located screw holes causing improper lock geometrty, weak mainspring and all ahve required rehardening. I had a charleville that didnt even make it through one reenacting event before the frizzen went soft! Do they shoot...yup, are they affordable....yup however bear in mind that u may get a great gun that will give you years of service. Or you may get a gun for 700 that is going to require several hundred more dollars to get it working properly..... if you look around i am sure you can find a quality built used gun for a modest price increase that will serve you far better. Many have bought them , many have said "i should have bought something else". The choice however is yours to make. If you are looking I can point you in the direction of a man who builds very nice guns very reasonable priced and he may have somehting youd like .... and it would be far ahead and better than anything you would find from INDIA. also, keep in mind that if parts break ( and they do) you will not be able to get anything for an india made gun as they are basicly handmade and one off productions. I have one hanging on t he wall with a broken lock.....I could spend $$ to fix it or have a modern lock fit to it....but spending 500$ to make a $450 gun functional just isnt worth it. If it had a locally made lock.....i could just buy a small part and be done .... so remember they are enticing cuz theyre xcheap, but remember the numerous downfalls to them....

The reason the Indian made guns don't have a vent hole in them is because, it is almost impossible for a gun company in India to export a firearm without going thru a tremendous amount of paperwork and expense. India basically refuses to allow guns to be exported from their country.
By not having a vent hole drilled in them, the flintlock guns they make are not shootable so they get around the Indian gun laws.

If the Indian made gun is being sold with a vent hole, the hole was drilled by the company that is selling them.

Are these guns meant to be converted into shootable firearms, or are they built as wall hangers that people have just decided to work them to get them to shoot? I dont think Id be inclined to try to get a wall hanger to shoot.

Seems like a big risk to me, and I dont trust anything made in India. They are the modern day Made in Taiwan. Id trust modern Made in Taiwan products more than I would anthing Made in India.

Where all all these guns blowing up?
Loyalist and Middlesex sell the same thing discriminating general and military heritage sells, with the exception that they drill the vent.
Are there a lot of victims of these guns out there? How do they stay in business with all the law suits against them for selling a hand held bomb?

Sidney Smith said:

Are these guns meant to be converted into shootable firearms, or are they built as wall hangers that people have just decided to work them to get them to shoot? I dont think Id be inclined to try to get a wall hanger to shoot.

Seems like a big risk to me, and I dont trust anything made in India. They are the modern day Made in Taiwan. Id trust modern Made in Taiwan products more than I would anthing Made in India.

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There are a lot of companies in India that are like the ones your thinking of but, there are also a lot of companies that are very good.

Take my 2011 Royal Enfield motorcycle for instance. It is made in India by the company that Royal Enfield (England) set up to produce their "Bullet" motorcycle, back in 1956. It is a 500cc, fuel injected, single cylinder with a front disk brake and an electric starter motor.
I bought it new and my motorcycle now has over 23,000 miles on it. During the last 9 years I've owned it, it has never given me a problem of any kind except the drive chain needed replacing after 5,000 miles.


Based on their history it seems that Loyalist and Middlesex have found some reputable Indian manufacturing companies to make the guns they are selling.
Their guns may need some fine tuning and hand fitting to get them to work like they should but I've not heard of any of them being dangerous to shoot.

Nice bike Zonie, needs a side car. I like the royal enfields. Now back to the guns.

I used to be afraid of the firearms sold by MVTC & Loyalist Arms, UNTIL I did the research and talked to people who actually had these firearms and shot them. For my Pirate, Highwayman, and another character I dress as...I plan to buy military flintlock pistols through these companies. And YES, my pistols, swords, and daggers are real functional items!
Sorta like an adult version of Cosplay.....

Adult???? Crap, where do you find them. Lots of grey hair, darn few adults

If someone wants to buy Indian made products thats fine with them. For me, nothing is going to convince me that anything made in India is worth its salt.

tenngun said:

Where all all these guns blowing up?
Loyalist and Middlesex sell the same thing discriminating general and military heritage sells, with the exception that they drill the vent.
Are there a lot of victims of these guns out there? How do they stay in business with all the law suits against them for selling a hand held bomb?

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That’s not correct they don’t sell guns from the same distributor.

Some of the guns have blown up, with no fatalities. The most common ones that have accidentally burst were by Middlesex in particular their Long land Bess and their enfield.

The guy from Middlesex assembles those guns in some capacity, its likely his error that may cause them to burst.

One Brown Bess had a lug dovetailed to the underside of the barrel, which is correct if done very shallow and carefully. I suspect that this might have been the flaw, if this part of the barrel was where the DOM seam may have been the weakest, and with a dirty bore and 100-120 grain loads could very well cause a barrel to blow.