Rifle Recommendations for a New ML Hunter

morehops52 · Oct 30, 2023

I started ML hunting only decades ago. If you go that route you can always go back to CF rifles later if you don't care for it. I think you'll find though that limiting your shots to 50-75 yards will make you a better hunter. Used ML rifles are a readily buyable and saleable item so don't be afraid to invest in one. All of my ML's are worth more today than when I bought them.
Soory about your Savage. My buddy had his dad's .308 and wouldn't trade it for anything.

SDSmlf · Oct 30, 2023

fnlyre said:
I'm afraid that I have become lost and confused in the weeds of the ML world. I turn to this forum and it's collective wisdom for guidance.

I have been looking into buying a ML to replace my old Savage 11 in .308 that recently had a tragic accident. I won't be able to have it repaired in time for deer season and I couldn't justify buying another (center-fire) deer rifle. I thought I might buy a muzzle-loader as a deer-hunting replacement for this season. My reasoning being that the basic in-line ML are cheap, would allow me to add something different to the gun cabinet, and also give me the option of extending my season. I also like the simplicity (in some sense) of ML being single-shot and having open sights. The Traditions Buckstalker and CVA Wolf fit the bill here. I also came across Knight's DISC in .52 cal on sale and have been going back-and-forth on that for days now.

And then I came across this forum and other parts of the traditional ML internet and now I am wondering if I don't want to look at shooting something more traditional. There's a certain romance about hunting with a traditional muzzle-loader that is really appealing. So I've come here for advice. As a newbie to ML and as a primarily Mid-West white-tail hunter what would you recommend? I should also confess that I am not a particularly good or experienced shooter. I only really shoot a couple of times a year when getting ready for dear season. Would it be better to start with some of those simpler, newer in-line ML to get a feel for the sport, or would I be OK to jump into percussion-caps and round-ball shooting? I am willing to put some time and work into figuring it out - I tend to go pretty hard into new hobbies.

If the answer is yes to starting with a more traditional ML, what would you recommend? I don't want to spend too much on a new hobby just in case it doesn't take. My budget is ~$400 for the gun knowing there will be additional expenses for accessories and ammunition.

I appreciate any and all advice and I hope that this is an appropriate place to post this question.

I see from your forum member profile you are ‘from USA’. That covers a lot of territory. Maybe narrow down your location a bit and you will possibly find somebody nearby that could help you in your quest. As a general observation, traditional muzzleloader enthusiasts are a curmudgeonly group, but will typically go way out of their way to assist someone new to the affliction. That said, what part of the World are you located in?

ETipp · Oct 30, 2023

Daveboone said:
At this point you would be best off picking up a ML and planning on being proficient with it for next year....not meaning to 2nd guess your abilities...
I have an awesome like new.50 cal. GPR with Lyman apertures on it that I would love to use this year....no way. I am proficient with ML, but to get it sighted in to my satisfaction will be several outings at least. I will hope for next year...

You bring up a valid point.

There is a learning curve about how to properly and safely use a muzzleloader, as well as proper cleaning and storage. However, that learning curve can be reduced substantially by purchasing a muzzleloader that is rifled for a conical bullet instead of patch and round ball. Then it only boils down to learning what charge and conical type the ML likes, as well as learning how to be repetitive in the loading process. Proper cleaning and care will need to be learned but that's an easy one.

So, for the OP, if you desire to venture into the world of side lock ML, I highly recommend getting one that has a 1:48" twist or faster and purchasing some sort of conical for it.

Also, I recommend getting a .50 caliber for starting off. My rational for this is .50 caliber has the most available components that can be more easily found. In addition, a .50 caliber conical puts deer down real well and the recoil is more tolerable than say, a .54 and larger. Most any 1:48" twist (rifling) side lock muzzleloader will shoot a conical well and are most common. A good ole Maxi Ball shoots very well out to 75 to 100 yards.

French Colonial · Oct 30, 2023

Well....
Anyone who has read my posts knows I am a flintlock guy and love HC firearms.

However the OP stated he wants to shoot the hunting season this year, so he needs to get moving and start gathering what's available, not what others and I think he should have.

But, we have not heard from him so who knows what is going on.

Thingamajiggy · Oct 30, 2023

If you stick with percussion, can easily find a decent one in your price range. Often see Traditions, Lyman and TC's going for that price here in PA. Flintlocks, other than Traditions, will push your max.

4119Bill · Oct 30, 2023

Edited

GregK · Oct 30, 2023

I see a lot of TC Renegades for sale here and on gunbroker, many in 50 cal. Good quality, probably more accurate with conicals rather than RB. Would make a good entry level gun.

Arkie72327 · Oct 30, 2023

The OP is looking at Knight's DISC rifles, which are a common ML in the south (and probably elsewhere as well, but here in Arkansas every Walmart has had them for years). Inlines, while having no "soul" are useful for taking deer and have some things that make it easy for the occasional ML guy. I have a CVA Optima Pro in 50 cal, and they are common on Gunbroker for the $200 range. I shoot it with the "Cheap Shot" solid lead sabots. My reasoning for why a "shotgun" style ML by CVA would be good for a beginner
- CVA is owned by Bergara, the quality is there and the warranty is outstanding
- Removable breech plug (even the older smaller style like mine that uses a 12mm socket) makes cleaning a breeze
- You can open the breech and look into the light and make sure it is unloaded
- If he starts with those pellets he can insure a consistent load and quick loading with nothing but three 50 grain pellets and a sabot
- Very accurate and will feel like the traditional guns he has been shooting.

There is no reason he can't start here and progress into traditional guns if he catches the spark, so to speak. I collect and shoot guns from about 1858 to now, and reload. My first shooting percussion experience was with a Italian clone of a Remington New Model Army, and didn't progress into rifles until this year. By chance I came across a CVA Optima Pro project gun at the Highway 127 yard sale and bought a 50 caliber parts kit and fixed it up. It is fun to shoot and easy to clean. Since, I bought a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle in 50 caliber (bought some .490 lead balls and lubed patches to shoot it, already had BP and #`11 caps ). I am in the market for an original 1816 contract musket cone-conversion (specifically an Eli Whitney or P&EW Blake) good enough to launch some round balls occasionally. And I have been looking at the Kibler flintlock kits. I guess I caught the bug.

longcruise · Oct 30, 2023

ORBushman said:
Interesting user name. F'n Liar!

Now now! He might be a musician!

I'm going to assume he is still with us.

I agree on the 50 with 1:48 twist. I suggest a new rifle and specifically the Traditions Deer Hunter percussion. It can be found in your price range and these are proven rifles. I had one and took several animals with it before passing it on to a grandson who also had success hunting with it. He also has either won or placed very well with it in competitions.

I disagree with the idea that you shouldn't do it because you don't shoot enough. I have plenty of centerfires too and I only shoot them in prep for a hunt. Otherwise they are just kinda boring

Keep it simple. Don't mess with patched balls this year. Save that for next year. Get some Hornady PA conicals. They are pre lubed so you can skip the lube learning curve. They are economical so you will be encouraged to do more shooting and the recoil won't be an issue. Pyrodex is readily available. You only NEED a powder measure, powder, nipple wrench and caps.

Caps will be the challenge so start looking today.

ORBushman · Oct 30, 2023

longcruise said:
Now now! He might be a musician!

BillyC · Oct 30, 2023

longcruise said:
Now now! He might be a musician!

I'm going to assume he is still with us.

I agree on the 50 with 1:48 twist. I suggest a new rifle and specifically the Traditions Deer Hunter percussion. It can be found in your price range and these are proven rifles. I had one and took several animals with it before passing it on to a grandson who also had success hunting with it. He also has either won or placed very well with it in competitions.

I disagree with the idea that you shouldn't do it because you don't shoot enough. I have plenty of centerfires too and I only shoot them in prep for a hunt. Otherwise they are just kinda boring

Keep it simple. Don't mess with patched balls this year. Save that for next year. Get some Hornady PA conicals. They are pre lubed so you can skip the lube learning curve. They are economical so you will be encouraged to do more shooting and the recoil won't be an issue. Pyrodex is readily available. You only NEED a powder measure, powder, nipple wrench and caps.

Caps will be the challenge so start looking today.

Don’t forget cleaning jag, ball puller, cleaning patches, capper, pouch to carry it all in, spare ramrod. These things add up in a hurry and shipping and hazmat charges are steep if you don’t have powder and caps available locally. A new centerfire rifle already scoped would not require anything that he doesn’t already have. If he bought one in .308 he would even know the ballistics and trajectory. Just my two cents.

longcruise · Oct 30, 2023

BillyC said:
Don’t forget cleaning jag, ball puller, cleaning patches, capper, pouch to carry it all in, spare ramrod. These things add up in a hurry and shipping and hazmat charges are steep if you don’t have powder and caps available locally. A new centerfire rifle already scoped would not require anything that he doesn’t already have. If he bought one in .308 he would even know the ballistics and trajectory. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I was focused on minimum absolute need. But it should have included the jag! :doh:

fnlyre · Oct 31, 2023

Thank you all for your thoughtful and informative posts! It has definitely left me with some things to think about, though I'm not sure that it's totally cleared up my indecision! I also apologize for not responding sooner - life, am'a right?

I saw some classifieds here for the T/C Renegade. They are within budget and, from what I can gather, are decent shooters. I think my current plan is to purchase a traditional ML and see if I can get up and running by our deer season in a few weeks. If I don't feel comfortable shooting and taking a deer with it, I won't go out - no biggie. Or maybe I can find something to borrow.

I enjoy deer hunting, but I don't live for it the way some folks do. I hit and lost a really nice doe last season with a misplaced shot and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I won't take shots I'm not 100% comfortable with anymore.

ORBushman said:
Interesting user name. F'n Liar!

64Springer said:
I'm going with: FiNalLY REtired

longcruise said:
Now now! He might be a musician!

Nothing quite so interesting. My dad was Fredrick and my grandfather was Noel. My parents didn't consider the implications. I was pretty popular in high-school though... Or maybe I'm lying...

But, again, thanks for all the advice. Ya'll seem like a really good group of folks. Hopefully the ML bug sticks and you'll see me around here some more.

Rum River · Oct 31, 2023

fnlyre:

Just sent you a private message.

fnlyre · Oct 31, 2023

Maybe off-topic. I know primers are a hot commodity. Where does a guy to find them? Do you have to make your own these days?

Coming to you from deep down a youtube rabbit-hole.
- F.N.

Arkie72327 · Oct 31, 2023

fnlyre said:
Maybe off-topic. I know primers are a hot commodity. Where does a guy to find them? Do you have to make your own these days?

Coming to you from deep down a youtube rabbit-hole.
- F.N.

I don't know where you are at, I am near Memphis, TN and I can find caps in about three different places. Sportsman's Warehouse generally has #10/#11 caps that modern and some repros use. Every once in awhile, they will have musket caps - they did last time I was by there last week. Bass Pro almost always have the smaller caps. Dixie Gun Works in Union City, TN has it all and powder as well. Shipping is going to be expensive because of HazMat fees if you aren't able to travel somewhere reasonably.

victor#0 · Oct 31, 2023

There's a good deal on the FOR SALE, a white mountain carbine for $350 and a GPR for $400 both in your price range.........................

Walks with fire · Oct 31, 2023

I just saw a like new percussion tc renegade for just a few bucks more than your budget and it is a steal at that price. It could be sold for what you paid for it after the season if you wanted. Keep in mind the Lyman, Tc and GM drop-in's are never going to be made again.

SDSmlf · Oct 31, 2023

Walks with fire said:
Keep in mind the Lyman, Tc and GM drop-in's are never going to be made again.

Except for the TC drop-ins being made today.
https://ricebarrels.com/product/tho...rop-in-barrels-1-20-1-24-1-48-square-riflied/

Spikebuck · Oct 31, 2023

Regarding caps...another place to look is local "farm stores" that also have sporting goods. I have many times gotten caps for a very good price at my local Farm & Fleet store.

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