“Posted Bridle”?

As far as I know, Jim Kibler’s locks are the only currently available locks that have a bridle with integral posts machined in them. These fit into the recessed holes on the back side of the lock plate and this configuration allows the tumbler to be perfectly aligned for best/fast operation. I am aware that some (few) of the premium locks made in the 1700’s had this feature. The bridle does not rely on screws to index the proper placement. The screws on these premium locks only solidly attach the bridle to the lock plate.
My opinion of the Kibler round-faced colonial lock is that it is the finest lock I have ever seen, owned, or disassembled.
Is anyone aware of other lock manufacturers that incorporate this “posted bridle” design?
Perhaps @Comfortably_Numb will know.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Snoot

Agreed with your opinion, but have no answer to your question. Sorry.

Snooterpup said:

As far as I know, Jim Kibler’s locks are the only currently available locks that have a bridle with integral posts machined in them. These fit into the recessed holes on the back side of the lock plate and this configuration allows the tumbler to be perfectly aligned for best/fast operation. I am aware that some (few) of the premium locks made in the 1700’s had this feature. The bridle does not rely on screws to index the proper placement. The screws on these premium locks only solidly attach the bridle to the lock plate.
My opinion of the Kibler round-faced colonial lock is that it is the finest lock I have ever seen, owned, or disassembled.
Is anyone aware of other lock manufacturers that incorporate this “posted bridle” design?
Perhaps @Comfortably_Numb will know.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Snoot

Click to expand...

A couple pictures please?

Following

Nice feature. One of dozens of details that can be incorporated into a successful lock design. It’s not a make-or-break feature by any means. Not sure why the post would be more effective than another screw.

I am talking about flintlock design features not the quality of the Kibler English lock. I hear it’s excellent.

Springfields and Harper's Ferry locks had the post. PIA IMO
Never found one that wasn't broken off.

M. De Land said:

A couple pictures please?

Click to expand...

Here is the information and photos taken from Jim Kibler’s video:
Kibler’s machined round faced colonial lock, link below.
As he states the bridle does not require screws to locate the bridle in the lock plate. There are small recessed holes in the back side of the lock plate where the bridle is press fit by finger pressure to the lock plate. This insures the bridle is correctly located and centered with the tumbler and lock plate. This seems a superior way to reduce friction by keeping all parts correctly centered.
Not sure if anyone else does this.
Enjoy the video!
Snoot

rich pierce said:

Nice feature. One of dozens of details that can be incorporated into a successful lock design. It’s not a make-or-break feature by any means. Not sure why the post would be more effective than another screw.

I am talking about flintlock design features not the quality of the Kibler English lock. I hear it’s excellent.

Click to expand...

I’ve seen and worked on lesser quality locks where there is some slop in the bridle and/or undersize screws. Depending on how and where they are tightened the tumbler may be free or binding a bit. This sure seems more effective than screws alone. I own one of these locks and it is the finest lock to cross my workbench!
Snoot

So what keeps the bridle secure? It looks like one must either put a screw into it from the outside of the lock plate, or finish the hole in the bridle's standoff for a screw on the inside.

There's an awful lot of wasted material in machining that. Properly fitted to the sear screw's head and a shouldered screw to secure it should be sufficient for any bridle, no?

Tumbledown said:

So what keeps the bridle secure? It looks like one must either put a screw into it from the outside of the lock plate, or finish the hole in the bridle's standoff for a screw on the inside.

There's an awful lot of wasted material in machining that. Properly fitted to the sear screw's head and a shouldered screw to secure it should be sufficient for any bridle, no?

Click to expand...

There are screws that go through the bridle and into the lock plate from the inside.

I, like some others above, have seen old locks where the bridle was only held by the screws and over time the bridle and screw threads had become worn and everything slopped around including the tumbler.

Jims locks should last a very long time in comparison.

Hi,
This was a feature used on better quality English locks during the 1760s-1780s. It mostly disappeared even from the best locks by the 19th century. It was particularly useful on bridles with piercings such as the Mortimer below to strengthen them.


However, it disappeared because it was not necessary. It also requires a deep mortice for the bridle right next to the bottom edge of the lock mortise because the tab has to clear the motion of the tumbler and screw. On two original fowlers that I own with locks having that feature, both have edges of the lock mortise broken right at that tab. Pinching the tumbler or sear is easily prevented by a thick strong bridle and a sear screw with a shoulder on the threads so it cannot be over tightened and pinch the sear. In addition, later locks often had a long boss on the bridal across the top with 2 screws that solved any pinching problem. Here is an example of the best work from the time by Robert Wogdon.


Note, he did not think the bottom tab was necessary nor did Nock or the Manton brothers, makers of the best flintlocks ever. Note, Jim's later period English lock does not need it. Both Jim's CNC machined locks are first rate. Those locks and locks by Chris Laubach are the best commercially made today. Chambers locks are also good but do not have the same precision manufacture. Most other commercial locks are so far behind it is hard to see them anymore in the distance. Using one now is like recalling a bad memory from childhood. With respect to precision obtained by modern CNC assisted machining, it is wonderful but not necessary even for hundreds of years of use. The best locks ever made were made by hand with very limited machining. The value of the CNC machining is not so much the precision but that the quality is repeatable at an affordable price at large scales, and it negates much of the imprecision inevitable in cast parts.

dave