Bullet suggestions for a 1:48 twist

olskool said:

hey, you ain't picking on me, i have killed literally 100s of deer in my life. you can shoot game with anything you like, big or small. if you don't hit the spot it won't matter, they will escape. if you do hit the spot with a small round ball or big one, they will die! so that is the key, not the size or shape of the projectile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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It’s always shot placement that makes the difference.

hanshi said:

I've owned, hunted with and fired thousands of rounds from several 1-48" twist rifles. In every instance I fired patched round ball. Accuracy was always great and they took game exceedingly well. I can't comment on any conical bullet because I've never used one in my nearly 55 years of shooting muzzleloaders.

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PRB and realBP keep traditional, traditional…..at least for me……the only time I’ve ever shot an in-line was when the state required it to pass their muzzleloading instructor certification class but I still used PRB and real BP…..they shrugged and scratched their heads but there were no rules against it so…….

Shortfingers said:

Agreed but 4” plate at 100 yds is my goal…..8” is like you say dinner on the table but could involve a wounded animal and a bit of tracking

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An 8 inch circle is the boiler room of a White tail. Larger animals that size increases. But yes a bit of tracking can happen for sure.

WonkyEye said:

I have a TC Hawken 1:48 .50 cal also, .490 round ball with .018 pillow ticking works ok for me, but not great. I tried the maxi ball when i first got the rifle without luck, I should revisit now that I have a better clue. I also tried Hornady PA Conical, but the lube that comes on them left me with a half rammed bullet in a loaded rifle. I haven't tried them again since but would like to.

I've had good accuracy with lee real 240gr which I powder coat. I use a wool wad saturated with a homebrew Lehigh valley lube ripoff. I've also had good results with DGL lube from TOTF

I have a lot more range work to try but I busted up my knee and haven't shot since early April. Surgery on Monday, hopefully I'll be back out again soon.

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I have a .54 Renegade. It shot pretty well with .530 round ball and .018 patch.

Sent the barrel to Bob Hoyt and he refreshed the barrel, deepening the factory rifling. Very accurate now.

WonkyEye said:

I have a TC Hawken 1:48 .50 cal also, .490 round ball with .018 pillow ticking works ok for me, but not great. I tried the maxi ball when i first got the rifle without luck, I should revisit now that I have a better clue. I also tried Hornady PA Conical, but the lube that comes on them left me with a half rammed bullet in a loaded rifle. I haven't tried them again since but would like to.

I've had good accuracy with lee real 240gr which I powder coat. I use a wool wad saturated with a homebrew Lehigh valley lube ripoff. I've also had good results with DGL lube from TOTF

I have a lot more range work to try but I busted up my knee and haven't shot since early April. Surgery on Monday, hopefully I'll be back out again soon.

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Get well soon and make some smoke

Frontstuffer070 said:

I think people have been conditioned to have high expectations when it comes to accuracy. It's everywhere in the gun world, not just here in the traditional muzzle loading community. I've seen it in all aspects. People expect bullets and ball in the same hole kinda accuracy then complain and believe their rifle is trash if they don't get it. They will print a 2-4" group and start wailing, lol. When in the real world I have never owned or shot a rifle that was not at least minute of deer or man accurate. I have no idea where people get these bench rest standards but its laughable to me. If you have a rock chucker that can hit an 8" plate at 100 yards you are gonna eat tonight. Now if you are competing then all that other stuff comes into play, and is not the point I'm trying to make.

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Amen to that. It depends what you do, do you need the accuracy, and are you willing to put in the work. I think the answer for most is no and no. Minute of pie plate accuracy at 50 yards is great for a deer in thick pa woods, or just for some plinking fun, but not so much for competitive shooting.

I think where I might disagree with you is I think most rifles, especially muzzleloaders are more accurate than the shooter. How many of us shoot standing unsupported? Can't blame the rifle for that. How many of us use open sights? The margin for error is so much higher than with optics, again not the barrel or bullet's fault.
Even with modern firearms most aren't getting that accuracy with factory ammo. They're just getting help from optics and a sled or sandbags that get them a 3"group at 100 yards - i.e. it's the Indian, not the arrow.

I also think our muzzleloaders are capable of a lot more if we took the time to figure out what they like and fed them better, but to even notice what better is we have to take our own inconsistency out of the equation. But almost nobody is willing to put in that much work. How many of us weigh powder - the heresy! How many weigh their round balls and throw the extremes back into the scrap lead pile? There's lots of talk about lubes, but how many try 45/55 vs 50/50 vs 55/45 crisco/beeswax (or whatever their homebrew is) and track the results and temperature that day. How many have tried more than 2 types of patch material? How many keep a notebook and measure groups, and record weather , components, and weights, and consistently tweak 1 variable at a time?

I have a [redacted] that shoots cloverleafs at 200 yards. It doesn't do that with factory [redacted].
It requires a hand load with +/- .5gr projectile and trickled load to +/- .1 gr and seating depth that's tuned to the rifle, and consistently trimmed, annealed, and weighed [redacted]. I have to account for temperature of the barrel and shoot slow enough to keep it consistent. I went through an entire spiral bound notebook and a couple hours/week at the range for probably 6 months, constantly making little tweaks to get it there, and went through several different combinations of components along the way. That same [redacted] shoots a 5-6" group with factory [redacted] at the same distance. And if I shoot standing unsupported with iron sights - I'm happy if I can get it on paper at 200 and all that tuning is a complete waste. It took a long time to come around to it, but, back to your point, why fuss if you don't need it because it's not free and unrealistic to think it is.

For me, the pursuit of accuracy is part of the hobby. It gives me a reason to go to the range and waste lead every week to try the little lube change I made, or to try the new patch material. Is it needed - absolutely not. Does it make my rifle trash if I can't make the holes touch - nope.

For hunting purposes a muzzle loading blunt nosed expanding soft lead bullet is fairly easy to make powerful and far more accurate than most shooters. You just need the rifle to be correctly built for however long the bullet is gonna be!

I'm a fan of the Lee R.E.A.L 320 grain they shoot well in my Trapper and Bobcat over 65 grains of 2f.

Sparkplug said:

I'm a fan of the Lee R.E.A.L 320 grain they shoot well in my Trapper and Bobcat over 65 grains of 2f.

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Yes. I have a 58 cal hawken and the Lee REAL bullet is excellent in the 1x48 twist I have

Good Day to you all!
I am used to shooting side lock rifles and doing well with accuracy. Now that I am 70 years old and need peep sights to get good accuracy I have crossed the line and purchased a Traditions Vortec Striker fire Back Country Rifle with a 1-28 twist. Put a scope on it and tried to zero it in with patched round balls. Even running a cleaning patch after each shot I had an awful time trying to seat the ball onto the powder. Had to use my mallet to drive it down. That made me uncomfortable but i shot 10 rounds doing that anyway. My final shot was 12 inches higher than the previous one with no changes. I will try .490 balls next time instead of .495s that I was using.
MY QUESTION IS. Can I expect any degree of accuracy from this 26 inch barrel with 1-28 twist, using PRB's?
Thank you and have a great day.

Smokepoler said:

Good Day to you all!
I am used to shooting side lock rifles and doing well with accuracy. Now that I am 70 years old and need peep sights to get good accuracy I have crossed the line and purchased a Traditions Vortec Striker fire Back Country Rifle with a 1-28 twist. Put a scope on it and tried to zero it in with patched round balls. Even running a cleaning patch after each shot I had an awful time trying to seat the ball onto the powder. Had to use my mallet to drive it down. That made me uncomfortable but i shot 10 rounds doing that anyway. My final shot was 12 inches higher than the previous one with no changes. I will try .490 balls next time instead of .495s that I was using.
MY QUESTION IS. Can I expect any degree of accuracy from this 26 inch barrel with 1-28 twist, using PRB's?
Thank you and have a great day.

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Maybe. One of my neighbors does ok with his but he’s only using light loads.

Punky Hollow said:

My latest 50 cal muzzleloader has a 1:48 twist barrel which seems to be a compromise between fast to slow twist rates. I'm looking for experience based recommendations on bullets to use for hunting deer that offer reasonable accuracy and expansion. These would need to have good results in a 1:48 twist.There are so many bullets on the market now it's hard to wade though all the options.
Thanks for the input.

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Not a comprise unless your shooting extremely competitive competition . If your shooting precision long range that's another story but if your killin stuff at muzzle loader (ball/conical ) yardage 1-48 does well @ both using pure lead . I own both /cast a lot and shoot both paper and critters Not a world beater but keep 3 freezer's full and @our short 200 yd range /long 700 yd range I am competent
(win some /lose some) and shoot at least 3 times a week at our club ranges

Shortfingers said:

PRB and realBP keep traditional, traditional…..at least for me……the only time I’ve ever shot an in-line was when the state required it to pass their muzzleloading instructor certification class but I still used PRB and real BP…..they shrugged and scratched their heads but there were no rules against it so…….

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After posting my question I found some of my fired patches from the 10 shot experiment and they were shredded. I expect that either the rapid twist tore them up or my bore was in poor condition. Remember this gun was unfired and bought new. However when I cleaned it there were lots of black patches before fireing and after. Finally used some scotch bright with solvent and it looks better now. Might be time for a retest.

Smokepoler said:

After posting my question I found some of my fired patches from the 10 shot experiment and they were shredded. I expect that either the rapid twist tore them up or my bore was in poor condition. Remember this gun was unfired and bought new. However when I cleaned it there were lots of black patches before fireing and after. Finally used some scotch bright with solvent and it looks better now. Might be time for a retest.

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What your experiencing is nothing more than either a store bought lubed patch (rotting) or an incorrect patch material and I do have you solution a Varity of patches always worked for me 80'/90 ion most all of my stock 48 twist ,the one 50 cal I kept has a 4x Leupold and shoot well with conicals . 87 yds with OE 90 gr 3F killed a nice buck. Forward quartering broke left leg / ribs and lay under the skin behind the far shoulder . A 54 cal 530 ball proved fatal/PM me Ed

Punky Hollow said:

My latest 50 cal muzzleloader has a 1:48 twist barrel which seems to be a compromise between fast to slow twist rates. I'm looking for experience based recommendations on bullets to use for hunting deer that offer reasonable accuracy and expansion. These would need to have good results in a 1:48 twist.There are so many bullets on the market now it's hard to wade though all the options.
Thanks for the input.

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Patched round balls…….

I got a 1x48 .58 cal Hawken and the Lee REAL bullet was the best. didnt go crazy with the thickness and material of the patch and wade thru the patch lube jungle. no ball starter. drop in with a little resistance. I used crisco for lube

Grenadier1758 said:

You will get the best response if you tell us a bit more about the barrel. Primarily, what is the depth of the rifling? Shallow rifling works better with conicals. Actual bore measurement is needed along with depth of rifling in order to suggest a patched round ball pairing. Who made the barrel? There's not enough information provided to give a helpful response and even then you will have to test the load out to verify if it will work.

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Grenadier 1758 brings up a key point concerning depth of rifling.
Many like myself on this forum have collected & used original flint & percussion firearms in competition for 6+ decades & can verify the following barrel specs.
I personally preferred hunting & competing with early large bore firearms that were built to shoot patched round balls like the Jaegers & English style sporting rifles due their shorter length & lighter weight.

* During this era these type of muzzleloading firearms featured rifling depth from .012 to .018 deep with rate of twist averaging 1 turn in
length of the barrel. Barrel specs. averaged same in rifled pistols of that era.

Unlike barrels on most original flint & percussion era firearms, most modern mass manufactured barrels have very shallow depth rifling with a depth that is better suited for shooting projectiles.

*Modern barrels with 1 in 48" twist shallow depth rifling of .006-.008 are capable of producing excellent groups if the bore & rifling is measured to obtain the correct ball diameter & compressed patch thickness for a tight fit & powder charge is not excessive to cause skidding & blown patches.
~ USE OF A GOOD PATCH LUBE IS KEY TO MAINTAINING CONSISTENT TIGHT GROUPS ~