Nipple problem...

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 28, 2024

I received today a very nice looking, most likely unfired Purdey Sporting rifle, Richland Arms import in .50 cal. Bore looks as new, stock very nice, blue and case colors very nice. But with the nipple supplied, it must be backed out a few threads to fire. At first I thought my caps were all old, but I fired some on a Pedersoli pistol I had sitting there no problem, so not the caps.
So backed the nipple out and started trying it with various turns out until it started firing on demand.
So my problem is I have no other nipples of this coarse thread size and diameter, which is .311" and threads look like 20 tpi. Looked at my other rifles and nothing else will work nor the few spares I had.
Pic of rifle and the nipple it came with.

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 28, 2024

Another pic of the nipple next to a scale, its .8" long.

Grenadier1758 · Jun 28, 2024

I'm going into speculation mode here. From your description, I think the nipple has 8mm by 1.25 threads. It's time for @[email protected] to take his nipple to the local hardware store that has a set of metric thread test boards to determine the exact thread he has.

Track of the Wolf has an excellent selection of nipples and there should certainly be some that will fit in that Purdy rifle important by Richland Arms, probably manufactured in Italy using metric components.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/159/1

Newly O’Brian · Jun 28, 2024

Is the hammer binding-up at the fully threaded position or is the hammer face not square to the nipple?

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 28, 2024

Grenadier1758 said:
I'm going into speculation mode here. From your description, I think the nipple has 8mm by 1.25 threads. It's time for @[email protected] to take his nipple to the local hardware store that has a set of metric thread test boards to determine the exact thread he has.

Track of the Wolf has an excellent selection of nipples and there should certainly be some that will fit in that Purdy rifle important by Richland Arms, probably manufactured in Italy using metric components.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/159/1

I looked over TOTW stuff already, problem is this one is .8" long and TOW has nothing longer than .750". May very well be metric, seems likely, but .311 translates to 5/16ths.

Newly O’Brian said:
Is the hammer binding-up at the fully threaded position or is the hammer face not square to the nipple?

I dont see any binding, hard to tell about squareness, all I know for sure is that threaded all the way in, the caps dont fire, and threaded out a bit they do.

Grenadier1758 · Jun 28, 2024

8 mm is 0.314

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 28, 2024

We have a gun shop nearby, sort of, that sells BP guns and stuff, will give them a call tomorrow, but otherwise I will make a spacer for it to keep it up a little higher.
Odd that it would ship with a nipple that wont produce though, unless someone swapped it out , but I dont see why that would happen, rifle looks new.
The breech, nipple, nipple seat, and clean out screw was all well packed with grease.

waksupi · Jun 28, 2024

If you know someone who knows how, heat and bend the hammer.

PrinterJohn · Jun 29, 2024

I have had two brand new percussion guns owned by friends with the same problems. I won't say who made them. When examined them I first made the same assumption that you made the nipple was the problem. Analyzing the problem it is clear that the hammer is not hitting the nipple or not hitting it hard enough to set off the cap. I removed the locks and the hammer stops moving when it hits the nipple or the tumbler hits the briddle inside the lock. By relieving the briddle slightly it allowed the hammer to hit the nipple and in both cases the problem was solved without messing with the nipple.

ZUG · Jun 29, 2024

I would suggest the quickest fix would be to make a small thin spacer and place it under your nipple and be done with it.

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 29, 2024

ZUG said:
I would suggest the quickest fix would be to make a small thin spacer and place it under your nipple and be done with it.

That was my thought too, and have now done so. Biggest issue seems to be the geometry between the hammer and nipple, its not centered at all, and hammer recess had a lip inside that I ground out.
Also the arm of the hammer was making contact with the back of the bolster which also inhibits full travel. I think I have it working now though. We shall see....neat rifle and I want it to work!

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 29, 2024

Here is a few more pics of this lovely little rifle. 27" barrel that measures just a red hair under 1" across the flats, and rifle weighs about 8.25#.

There is another on GB just like it from Garrett Arms, but sadly some club fisted ham hock drilled it for a scope mount and seller wants more than twice what I paid for this one. Been looking for quite a while for one.

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 29, 2024

Well I have to tell on myself. Looks like the nipple was not the culprit after all! After I thought I had it all working, I set it aside for awhile, came back to pop a couple more and thud! No pop.
Back to the drawing board. Inside the cap cup of the hammer there were a couple of ridges inside that I ground down as they appeared to be interfering with the hammer falling all the way to light the caps off, or at least retarded the inertia. As well the cup was out of round, so between pinching it and beating on it a bit, its a bit more round now and doesnt seem to be interfering with the caps.
So I got it working a bit, off and on. Hmmm... Ground a tiny bit of metal off the hammer arm where it was bonking the back of the bolster, dont know if that had any real effect but I dont think it hurt anything and it can't really be seen.
Soooo I started playing with nipple height again by time I was done fooling around it was all the way seated again, without even the spacer I made and whadayaknow? Pow, pow, pow, pow... and later pow pow.
Looks like a combination of things, not the nipple, perhaps not at all, but a combo of other little things. If it keeps working its Golden, if not, keep chasing.

ZUG · Jun 30, 2024

You might want to buy an extra hammer from TOTW with the correct throw if you keep having cap ignition issues. Hammer face and nipple face needs to be parallel to each other for good consistent ignition :thumb:

. Trying to bend that hammer to get it to work better will be very difficult - can be done but much easier to buy a hammer that has the correct throw.

ETipp · Jun 30, 2024

[email protected] said:
Another pic of the nipple next to a scale, its .8" long.

BP, I understand you have/had other issues with that ML. However, just an observation here. From the pic you posted, that appears to be a tapered nipple. Traditions puts those on at least their Crockett rifles. I replaced mine in sort order due to number 11 caps falling off way too easy. Pretty sure it was a metric of some sort. The replacement nipples from TOTW rectified that issue completely. So, after you get the issue resolved, you will most likely want to replace that nipple anyway IF you can find one.

Also, that is a nice looking little ML you have. I hope you can get it to your liking.

XVIIc Wheelock · Jun 30, 2024

Get a flintlock.....it was successful for over 200 years, percussion was out in 40!

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 30, 2024

ZUG said:
You might want to buy an extra hammer from TOTW with the correct throw if you keep having cap ignition issues. Hammer face and nipple face needs to be parallel to each other for good consistent ignition. Trying to bend that hammer to get it to work better will be very difficult - can be done but much easier to buy a hammer that has the correct throw.

Hammers vary in shape considerably, seems doubtful this is some sort of in stock item?

tallPercshooter · Jun 30, 2024

I would be leery of any fix where all the nipple threads did not engage the drum threads. Sounds like your fix is the best one, nipple fully seated.

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 30, 2024

tallPercshooter said:
I would be leery of any fix where all the nipple threads did not engage the drum threads. Sounds like your fix is the best one, nipple fully seated.

That was my thought too, but even with the spacer I tried, all threads were engaged as there is a space of no threads at the top end. But for sure, this is preferred.

BPnut@.50cal · Jun 30, 2024

ETipp said:
BP, I understand you have/had other issues with that ML. However, just an observation here. From the pic you posted, that appears to be a tapered nipple. Traditions puts those on at least their Crockett rifles. I replaced mine in sort order due to number 11 caps falling off way too easy. Pretty sure it was a metric of some sort. The replacement nipples from TOTW rectified that issue completely. So, after you get the issue resolved, you will most likely want to replace that nipple anyway IF you can find one.

Also, that is a nice looking little ML you have. I hope you can get it to your liking.

I thought all nipples were tapered or coned?

Nipple problem...

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