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Cleaning that little space at the bottom of the barrel

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Seabee Chief

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Hi guys. I was wondering, in my pendersol frontier at the bottom of the barrel is that small chamber that the powder sits in beside the touch hole. ( sorry my mind can’t think of the correct words) anyway. I usually use a spit patch between shots then a couple of dry ones. I use 3F powder for both the load and the pan. Sometimes I cannot feel the powder with my nipple pic. That’s when it doesn’t go boom. So having just gotten a right size jag to fit how often should I clean it out and would a brush do better than a jag with cloth? Thanks
 
a sub-caliber breech face scraper can get in there, or a .22 cal brass brush. Track of the Wolf has such implements.

Welcome to the horrors of the chambered breech. A solution to a problem that never existed.

rant mode off.
 
You'll need to get a supply of those brushes if you choose that method. One use to clean out the chambered breech pretty much destroys a brush. And don't get the kind where the twisted wire axis protrudes beyond the end of the bristles, because you can't get those all the way in there to the breech face.
 
One of these can be handy for scrubbing a patent breech or face of the breech plug.

1000000148.png
 
Hi guys. I was wondering, in my pendersol frontier at the bottom of the barrel is that small chamber that the powder sits in beside the touch hole. ( sorry my mind can’t think of the correct words) anyway. I usually use a spit patch between shots then a couple of dry ones. I use 3F powder for both the load and the pan. Sometimes I cannot feel the powder with my nipple pic. That’s when it doesn’t go boom. So having just gotten a right size jag to fit how often should I clean it out and would a brush do better than a jag with cloth? Thanks
Another easy way to clean a chambered breech: Soak a cleaning patch with your favorite solution to disolve black powder and push it down using a brass ringed screw bit ball puller. Make sure the puller is for a small caliber. The screw with patch will go into the breech cavity. Turn cockwise, then pull when you are satisified it is clean. Piece of cake and you won't waste $$$ on brushes that wear out.
Since I don't know where the breech chamber is on your gun, I am assuming it is centered on the plug.
Larry
 
Hi guys. I was wondering, in my pendersol frontier at the bottom of the barrel is that small chamber that the powder sits in beside the touch hole. ( sorry my mind can’t think of the correct words) anyway. I usually use a spit patch between shots then a couple of dry ones. I use 3F powder for both the load and the pan. Sometimes I cannot feel the powder with my nipple pic. That’s when it doesn’t go boom. So having just gotten a right size jag to fit how often should I clean it out and would a brush do better than a jag with cloth? Thanks
That's what is known as a "Patent Breech". There are a bunch of variations of it from about the 1840's on, but they all basically do the same thing and offer the same cleaning challenges. The patent breech does not go into the side of the barrel like a "normal" flash hole does. Rather it goes behind the back of the bore and comes into the barrel from the center of the back. This is supposed to give a better and more evenly exploding load because the flash comes into the bore from the middle of the back instead of into the bore from the side of the barrel. My Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle that I bought in the early 2000's has one of those. In My Humble Opinion, it's more trouble than it's worth. Here's an illustration of a patent breech, similar to what you've encountered. Again, there are variations on the patent breech but this demonstrates the basic function they all have.

PatentBreechIllustration.jpg


That smaller pre-ignition antechamber that comes into the back is tough to clean. You need to find a brass brush of the right caliber to fit into the antechamber to clean it well. And then, there is no real way to get anything in the flue channel if it needs scrubbing out. So if/when you get a flash in the pan, picking out the flash hole may not help at all. In fact, it might just push some fouling up against an area at the bottom of or entrance to the Antechamber that is already constricted with previous fouling and really plug it up. But fear not, there is a method that was shown to my by the gun-builder in our reenactment group that cleans all that stuff out and as long as you use it every day that you shoot your rifle, you don't need to go out and by any extra brushes or tools to clean the breech nor a really long brass-wire rod to try to clear the flash channel.

Once I started doing the following cleaning regimen, I never had a problem with that patent breech again.
• Remove the lock and put a round toothpick or carved twig in the flash hole. Be sure it is a snug fit. (***oops*** Since this is under Flintlock rifles, I presumed we were talking about a flintlock, but since we're talking about nipples, it's obviously a caplock. You should be able to just plug the nipple and proceed as below.)
• Pour in enough water or cleaning solution to put a couple of inches of liquid in the Bore. I use MAP, but if I'm out of that just regular water works fine.
• Stand the rifle up leaning against a tree or other resting place so that liquid can soak into the internal fouling.
• Clean, dry, and oil the lock while the barrel is soaking. Do NOT reinstall the lock yet.
• Now...back to the barrel...Run a WET patch down the barrel until you feel some decent hydraulic pressure from trying to compact the liquid inside. Don't get crazy about it but you don't want to just rest it there. You do want to put some pressure on it.
• Maintaining that pressure on your ramrod, be sure to point the toothpick or twig in the flash hole well away from anything within about 15-feet that you don't want to stain black with the dissolved black powder fouling.
• Now, while maintaining the pressure on the ramrod, reach down and remove the toothpick or twig, while forcefully driving your ramrod all the way down.
• This will spurt out a really black stream of liquid a good 6-feet or more away from the flash hole, so BE SURE that it's not going to hit anything you don't want stained. I stained the side of a friends tent the first time I did this.
• The bottom of the bore, the patent breech, and the flash hole will now be really clean. Go ahead and run some wet patches down the barrel to remove residual fouling above the bottom of the bore until they come back clean
• Follow that up with 1 or 2 dry patches as needed and, when they come back clean and dry, you can LIGHTLY oil a patch and running down.
• BEWARE!!! DO NOT run a heavily oiled patch down barrel. The last thing you want is for there to actually be enough oil in that breech to soak the bottom of your next load of Black Powder, because it will not ignite if you do. Ask me how I know this!! If that happens then you'll have to go through the whole hydraulic cleaning exercise again. It's a Goldilock's operation - Not too much, Not too little, just right.
• Now you can go ahead and re-install your lock.

Even though I've probably over-explained this, it really takes very little time to do this and as long as you hydraulically clean it every day you shoot it, you won't have any trouble keeping that patent breech clean and operating reliably.

The next longrifle that I bought in about 2006 was my Early Lancaster that has a standard breech coming into the bore from the side, and I still use that same method to clean it. I much prefer the standard breech on a flintlock compared to a patent breech.

Hope this helps!
Dan
 
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First determine the size of the hole in the patent breach, on my Traditions the hole is 4.5mm/.177" . A .17 caliber bronze brush and mop work perfectly.I have a CVA that is .220" diameter which a .22 brush and mop works . I clean with pumping water up and down the bore and that works good at the end of the day. Where the brush shines is when shooting on a humid day ; wiping cleans the bore but the .177" hole can become fouled or clogged. The brush can clean the fouling after wiping or between shot strings.
 
I don't think this is as big deal. I shoot original English double barrels made this way. Pull wedge remove nibble if percussion and plug fill barrel with boiling water. Leave set a few minutes. Push wet patch or mop down bore remove plug then stick barrels in pail of hot water pump water in and out. Barrel will dry ASAP. Wear gloves very hot. Patch with oil of choice DONE
 
Hi guys. I was wondering, in my pendersol frontier at the bottom of the barrel is that small chamber that the powder sits in beside the touch hole. ( sorry my mind can’t think of the correct words) anyway. I usually use a spit patch between shots then a couple of dry ones. I use 3F powder for both the load and the pan. Sometimes I cannot feel the powder with my nipple pic. That’s when it doesn’t go boom. So having just gotten a right size jag to fit how often should I clean it out and would a brush do better than a jag with cloth? Thanks
Two things to consider:
Your bore is probably either .50 or .54. You can use the appropriate brush but do not jam it all the way down. Your rifle has a chambered breech. The breech plug extends about on inch inside the barrel. The ‘bore’ in that chambered breech is approximately .25 caliber. Use a .22 brush to get inside that chamber and mark your ramrod for depth when using the regular bore brush. Be sure your ramrod/large brush combination will not go deep enough in the barrel to enter that chambered breech. Do not jam the regular bore brush into that chambered breech or you’ll be sorrier than a turkey before Thanksgiving.
Your best advice is clean the bore withe the appropriate jag and patches, use the .22 brush to extend into that chambered breech and flush the barrel with a tight cleaning cloth on your jag and water. Dry the bore and apply barricade or other suitable oil.
Look at the brushes in the photo.
Do not used the wrong style, ever in a muzzleloader. Other photos show your chambered breech plug.
Have fun with your Frontier.
 

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I have 3 frontier rifles. 2 caplocks and a flinter. Clean properly with water, flush with alcohol and lube with Ballistol and you’ll never have any issues. No need to remove the barrel. I do run a .22 cal brush into the patent breech during cleaning and once your patch is clean you’re good to go.
 
For cleaning out the flue channel or the inside of the touchhole liner, I use the hard bristle pipe cleaners. They do an extra nice job cleaning fouling from inside that 90 degree bend. I can actually clean the face of my touchhole liner with one of those bristle pipe cleaners. Just make a 90 degree bend in the end, stick that little bend through the touch hole and spin it a couple of times. Wally World has them. I have been using the Bristle pipe cleaners for cleaning my flintlocks and the inside of the nipples on percussion guns going on 30+ years I think. They are something that makes your cleaning practice more efficient.
Ohio Rusty ><>
 
a sub-caliber breech face scraper can get in there, or a .22 cal brass brush. Track of the Wolf has such implements.

Welcome to the horrors of the chambered breech. A solution to a problem that never existed.

rant mode off.
Yeah, the scraper to fit the anti chamber is a good way to go while shooting or cleaning to keep shooting. My re-barreld TC .54 cal with the patent breech is prone to misfire without being scraped or brushed out routinely.
A good supply of pipe cleaners is handy to have on hand as well.
 
For cleaning out the flue channel or the inside of the touchhole liner, I use the hard bristle pipe cleaners. They do an extra nice job cleaning fouling from inside that 90 degree bend. I can actually clean the face of my touchhole liner with one of those bristle pipe cleaners. Just make a 90 degree bend in the end, stick that little bend through the touch hole and spin it a couple of times. Wally World has them. I have been using the Bristle pipe cleaners for cleaning my flintlocks and the inside of the nipples on percussion guns going on 30+ years I think. They are something that makes your cleaning practice more efficient.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Got a picture ? Are they in the craft section ? -Thanks
 
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