• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

An early and very worthwhile project

L & R
Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Flintlock1640

Flintlock1640

40 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
443
Reaction score
488
Location
Covington, VA
I realize this is a flintlock in the pre-flint section but when it comes to 17th century I think this section is still most appropriate. I always wanted a good flintlock of the English Civil War period. This 1640s flintlock has seen some restoration already. I need to source lock parts and a butt cap. I haven't found much from rifle shoppe. I'll give them a call and see what they say. They usually have stuff not in the catalog. I thought I would also query you guys to see where else I might source parts?
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20240926_002457789.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002457789.jpg
    2.4 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002509308.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002509308.jpg
    3.1 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002519323.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002519323.jpg
    3.2 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002528696.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002528696.jpg
    2.5 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002534140.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002534140.jpg
    3.8 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002538676.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002538676.jpg
    3.3 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002555821.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002555821.jpg
    3.1 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002615156.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002615156.jpg
    3.5 MB
  • PXL_20240926_002617886.jpg
    PXL_20240926_002617886.jpg
    3.4 MB
Can you show more photos of the lock?
Does it appear to have a frizzen & spring mounting holes?
It might have had a tumbler once...
But a sear?
I think that it is a tourist piece. It never functioned with that lock.
If the barrel is real a different lock can be found.
 
PhDBrewer said:
Can you show more photos of the lock?
Does it appear to have a frizzen & spring mounting holes?
It might have had a tumbler once...
But a sear?
I think that it is a tourist piece. It never functioned with that lock.
If the barrel is real a different lock can be found.
Click to expand...
The parts came from a restorer in Germany. Very obviously they made the lock plate attaching either the original engravings or a reasonable substitute. I was going to build the lock based off the modern plate. The rest is clearly original.
 
Morning.

What an interesting and curious pistol. I'm going to guess that this pistol may have started life as a genuine period piece missing it's lock. Later on, it was cobbled together as a Victorian period decorator. But then, mistreated through the later years. The original lock missing and pommel cap cannibalized for use on another gun.
The stock appears very old. The pommel/grip area is both large and narrow. A common design with early to mid-17th century pistols. A bit of a carry-over from the wheellock. I wonder if this pistol originally was made with a wheellock or snaphaunce/doglock ? I say this with the assumption that the current lock plate is a later creation.
The barrel, if original, is the best part. Curious that there doesn't appear to be a mounting hole in the breech plug tang ?

Rick
 
rickystl said:
Morning.

What an interesting and curious pistol. I'm going to guess that this pistol may have started life as a genuine period piece missing it's lock. Later on, it was cobbled together as a Victorian period decorator. But then, mistreated through the later years. The original lock missing and pommel cap cannibalized for use on another gun.
The stock appears very old. The pommel/grip area is both large and narrow. A common design with early to mid-17th century pistols. A bit of a carry-over from the wheellock. I wonder if this pistol originally was made with a wheellock or snaphaunce/doglock ? I say this with the assumption that the current lock plate is a later creation.
The barrel, if original, is the best part. Curious that there doesn't appear to be a mounting hole in the breech plug tang ?

Rick
Click to expand...
Hi Rick,
I feel sure the barrel is real you can see where it screws in it's not some modern welded piece. I too thought the tang was odd. It could have been modified but the wood appears to be extremely old but has no hole for a screw. It could be that the hole through the tang for the lock screw was what held it in place and the tang was there to keep it straight. I believe it started out as a flintlock with a face like this. The rear of the lock mortice fits the face perfectly. Honestly the engraving on the modern lock matches the style so much I half wondered if the modern lock plate incorporated some of the old. I feel sure it was originally a flintlock since it has a vertical frizzen. The trigger would be different for any of the others.
 
More photos
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20240926_132520692.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132520692.jpg
    4.1 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132445390.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132445390.jpg
    2.7 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132437784.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132437784.jpg
    3 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132337251.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132337251.jpg
    3.1 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132329744.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132329744.jpg
    3 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132300881.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132300881.jpg
    2 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132246296.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132246296.jpg
    2.2 MB
  • PXL_20240926_132236373.jpg
    PXL_20240926_132236373.jpg
    1.6 MB
As for the lock. I was assuming the plate shown was original. The engraved/sculpted area could be soldered on to the new plate or a plate was cast from the original pieces. Or... someone did a great job copying the original! I have used Siler "guts" on cast lockplates from originals to create well functioning copies.
20240720_134504.jpg

As for recreating other parts, sculpting wax can be applied to the places to build up the part.. then cast into brass or steel.
20230805_174436.jpg
 
Last edited:
I agree that the tang appears no be held by the "through" screw. Common practice to hide all fasteners on ornate pieces.
I have access to a few ornate lock casting from other originals. Could you trace out the lock plate and provide a scale? I can look at parts that I have.
That is a really nice barrel.
William
 
Any idea of the pistols original origin ?

Another possibility would be to make a new pistol using the barrel and what hardware is there. And purchasing a complete, original lock for Czerny's auctions when they come up.

I see now what held the rear of the barrel in place. And, based on the two lock screw holes position on the left side, that it was some form of flintlock.

Rick
 

Similar threads

Flintlock1640
  • Locked
WITHDRAWN Pattern 1742 British Brown Bess, original, project
Replies
1
Views
375
Flintlock1640
Flintlock1640
H
SOLD Antique Project Pistol
Replies
8
Views
786
CuNosecap
C
dave_person
Making a Rev War Period British Carbine
Replies
19
Views
785
fireman1
fireman1
dave_person
Making an English Turn-off Pistol for Fort Dobbs
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
shorthair
S
TobJohn
Historical Loading and Safety
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
Irishmusket
I

Latest posts

Back
Top