Help for a rookie please

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RATKAS

RATKAS

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Hi fellow muzzleloaders!

There's no such thing as a dumb question especially when it comes to being a rookie.......and guns......so here goes.

I have a brand new Pietta 1863 Remington Pocket in .31cal. Afaik Pietta states a max load of 10grs of black powder. I live in South Africa and muzzleloading equipment is extremely hard to come by here, so I make everything myself, which is partly why I love muzzleloading so much. At the moment I don't have a volumetric measure. I do own a scale though and I ONLY use REAL FFFG black powder, no substitute.

When I throw 10 grains of real fffg black powder on the scale and throw that into the chamber of the revolver it almost comes to the top of the cylinder chamber. There is only 4mm of space to the top. That means when I place a ball of basically 8mm on top, 4mm will still protrude above the cylinder chamber. I will have to compress that ball at least 4mm to get it to sit flush with the chamber top, which I don't think will happen. What am I doing wrong here? Afaik 10grs of real black powder on a scale will weigh pretty much the same as dispensing 10grs on a volumetric measure. I do realise 10grs of substitute weight less, but thats another story because I only use real black powder. Please help. PS: I don't use the loading lever on the revolver. I built a reloading press to load outside of the gun.

1000064405.jpg
 
Last edited:
hawkenhunter50 said:
Just use less powder. A couple of grains one way or the other isn't going to make any difference.
Click to expand...

Yep, and even if you mess up and can't compress the ball far enough for the cylinder to turn, there are ways around the problem.

Cut off the excess lead with a razor knife, or pull the nipple and remove some powder out of the back so you can push the ball all the way in.

If you were really in a pinch and without tools, you could assemble the gun with the hammer back and the bullet inserted into the barrel, prime, then fire it out. I'd avoid that unless you find yourself on a battlefield though. :D

All that said, I think the ball will compress that much powder without difficulty. Still, better to start out with a bit less.
 
If you want more or less consistency, put powder in the chamber to where it looks like a ball will fit down in the chamber. Take that amount and weigh it. Do it two or three times and write down the average. Shoot it and adjust powder to where you want it. When you find the sweet spot. Make a measure of whatever you have on hand. Antler, old cartridge casing. Or get you whats called a Baby Flask. They throw just the right amount you probably need.

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/baby-colt-style-powder-flask-acc-3010.html
 
I read somewhere that the starting powder charge was to use the same amount as the ball size. I went to shoot my 54 caliber one time and I couldn't find my measure. I tried that and it works. I just eyeballed it. Put the ball in my cupped hand and added the powder. Pick the ball out and drop the powder in. Patched the ball and it did good.
 
Jappo said:
I read somewhere that the starting powder charge was to use the same amount as the ball size. I went to shoot my 54 caliber one time and I couldn't find my measure. I tried that and it works. I just eyeballed it. Put the ball in my cupped hand and added the powder. Pick the ball out and drop the powder in. Patched the ball and it did good.
Click to expand...
 
I am seeing some wild stuff on replying to the post. All sort of setup stuff and have reported it.
The basic thing on Black Powder is weights and measures are not the same though in theory 3F via a measure of say 10 should also be 10 grains. But there is no standard for that, each measure mfg has their own take. 3F sizes are not the same from mfg to mfg as there are no standards for it.
So cut it back to say 6 grains, powder will compress some. Try one round. It could be you should be down at 5.
 
Smokerr said:
I am seeing some wild stuff on replying to the post. All sort of setup stuff and have reported it.
The basic thing on Black Powder is weights and measures are not the same though in theory 3F via a measure of say 10 should also be 10 grains. But there is no standard for that, each measure mfg has their own take. 3F sizes are not the same from mfg to mfg as there are no standards for it.
So cut it back to say 6 grains, powder will compress some. Try one round. It could be you should be down at 5.
Click to expand...

I'll assume you're talking about my battlefield joke.

Before getting nitpicky about humor it would probably be a good idea to not suggest loads below the minimum range.

Since RATKAS is a self described rookie, I'd like to point out to him that in a .31 black powder revolver, using real black powder, that's it's far, far more dangerous to underload the gun than overload it by a grain or two.

Squibs blow up more guns, both antique and modern, than any other condition. If you get to far below that minimum range, your ball may not exit the gun, especially after a long shooting session. The next round you fire will go kaboom.
 
the ball will fit with compression of the powder
10 grains is perfect it is just enough that the ball will just set at the mouth of the cylinder
you should for sure use your loading stand

I have an Uberti 1863 and 10 grains is my load for it. It is a tight fit but it works fine. I never use the loading lever as it seems so dainty and I can get heavy handed. My loading stand is perfect for the job.
 
RATKAS said:
Hi fellow muzzleloaders!

There's no such thing as a dumb question especially when it comes to being a rookie.......and guns......so here goes.

I have a brand new Pietta 1863 Remington Pocket in .31cal. Afaik Pietta states a max load of 10grs of black powder. I live in South Africa and muzzleloading equipment is extremely hard to come by here, so I make everything myself, which is partly why I love muzzleloading so much. At the moment I don't have a volumetric measure. I do own a scale though and I ONLY use REAL FFFG black powder, no substitute.

When I throw 10 grains of real fffg black powder on the scale and throw that into the chamber of the revolver it almost comes to the top of the cylinder chamber. There is only 4mm of space to the top. That means when I place a ball of basically 8mm on top, 4mm will still protrude above the cylinder chamber. I will have to compress that ball at least 4mm to get it to sit flush with the chamber top, which I don't think will happen. What am I doing wrong here? Afaik 10grs of real black powder on a scale will weigh pretty much the same as dispensing 10grs on a volumetric measure. I do realise 10grs of substitute weight less, but thats another story because I only use real black powder. Please help. PS: I don't use the loading lever on the revolver. I built a reloading press to load outside of the gun.

View attachment 357304
Click to expand...
Not the time to panic, rather the time to think things through.

You say you don’t have a volumetric powder measure, so maybe you can make one, if you have access to a drill and a small piece of wood, brass or antler for example, or something similar. Or maybe a small hollow tube with closed end and a 5mm to 10mm diameter hole in it that you could adjust the length of. Basically, you are looking for a tube or scoop that will measure a volume somewhere between 0.5cc and 0.7cc. For reference (likely not available in South Africa) Lee Precision Inc sells a powder measure scoop set that includes both a 0.5cc and 0.7cc scoop, which according to Lee will measure 8.0 grains 11.1 grains of 3F blackpowder.
1729751542910.jpeg

Depending on the size of your revolver’s chambers, somewhere around a 0.6cc scoop or measure should work fine. No doubt you can use your scale once you figure out the ideal charge, but a simple volumetric measure will surely quicken up your loading procedure.

Hope you enjoy your new revolver.
 
Your 3F powder looks very coarse to me from your picture. I would try less powder and find a charge that the ball will be flush or slightly below the cylinder mouth when the ball is seated.
 
When I started with an 1860 Army, I was filling the cylinder to the top, then compressing the powder. It shot hard, but fine. I didn't do it long, but it worked. Black powder is no where near as sensitive as smokeless powder. A grain or 3 either way won't effect performance.
Mine was a steel frame, a brass frame can't stand the same pressure.
 
RATKAS said:
Hi fellow muzzleloaders!

There's no such thing as a dumb question especially when it comes to being a rookie.......and guns......so here goes.

I have a brand new Pietta 1863 Remington Pocket in .31cal. Afaik Pietta states a max load of 10grs of black powder. I live in South Africa and muzzleloading equipment is extremely hard to come by here, so I make everything myself, which is partly why I love muzzleloading so much. At the moment I don't have a volumetric measure. I do own a scale though and I ONLY use REAL FFFG black powder, no substitute.

When I throw 10 grains of real fffg black powder on the scale and throw that into the chamber of the revolver it almost comes to the top of the cylinder chamber. There is only 4mm of space to the top. That means when I place a ball of basically 8mm on top, 4mm will still protrude above the cylinder chamber. I will have to compress that ball at least 4mm to get it to sit flush with the chamber top, which I don't think will happen. What am I doing wrong here? Afaik 10grs of real black powder on a scale will weigh pretty much the same as dispensing 10grs on a volumetric measure. I do realise 10grs of substitute weight less, but thats another story because I only use real black powder. Please help. PS: I don't use the loading lever on the revolver. I built a reloading press to load outside of the gun.

View attachment 357304
Click to expand...
Just use the fullest charge that will fit under the ball. Mfgr. recommendations are often 'off' a bit!
 
RATKAS said:
Hi fellow muzzleloaders!

There's no such thing as a dumb question especially when it comes to being a rookie.......and guns......so here goes.

I have a brand new Pietta 1863 Remington Pocket in .31cal. Afaik Pietta states a max load of 10grs of black powder. I live in South Africa and muzzleloading equipment is extremely hard to come by here, so I make everything myself, which is partly why I love muzzleloading so much. At the moment I don't have a volumetric measure. I do own a scale though and I ONLY use REAL FFFG black powder, no substitute.

When I throw 10 grains of real fffg black powder on the scale and throw that into the chamber of the revolver it almost comes to the top of the cylinder chamber. There is only 4mm of space to the top. That means when I place a ball of basically 8mm on top, 4mm will still protrude above the cylinder chamber. I will have to compress that ball at least 4mm to get it to sit flush with the chamber top, which I don't think will happen. What am I doing wrong here? Afaik 10grs of real black powder on a scale will weigh pretty much the same as dispensing 10grs on a volumetric measure. I do realise 10grs of substitute weight less, but thats another story because I only use real black powder. Please help. PS: I don't use the loading lever on the revolver. I built a reloading press to load outside of the gun.

View attachment 357304
Click to expand...
Btw, the wife and I spent 9 days hunting outside of Grahamstown last month. We had a great time. I saw no working muzzleloaders while there. My PH told me they aren't common. That's a big reason I own muzzleloaders, too take the road less traveled.
 
Eterry said:
Btw, the wife and I spent 9 days hunting outside of Grahamstown last month. We had a great time. I saw no working muzzleloaders while there. My PH told me they aren't common. That's a big reason I own muzzleloaders, too take the road less traveled.
Click to expand...
When you’re on the side of the majority, it’s time to reform.
 
Powder will squish a bit. As long as the ball goes down enough to allow the cylinder to rotate it should be fine. If you want to tune the accuracy of your revolver, you’ll need to fashion yourself a proper powder measure.
 
Eterry said:
Btw, the wife and I spent 9 days hunting outside of Grahamstown last month. We had a great time. I saw no working muzzleloaders while there. My PH told me they aren't common. That's a big reason I own muzzleloaders, too take the road less traveled.
Click to expand...
Ahhhhh, glad you and your wife enjoyed your stay! Totally agree with your last sentence. Exactly why I love muzzleloading and the reason why I drive a Suzuki Jimny lol!
 

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