Pattern 1776 Rifle

Eterry said:

I'd love to see pics of the entire rifle.

Click to expand...

I just got back a couple hours ago from the Yorktown Battlefield and Museum. I found this in their display. It's not a great pic, but it was very cool to see as "up close" as a display case will allow.

dave_person said:

Hi Mas Casa,
Everyone is mistaking your inquiry as about the pattern 1776 British muzzleloading rifle. I believe you are asking about the German-made rifles by Huhnstock upon which the British pattern was somewhat modeled. There is no one reproducing the components.

dave

Click to expand...

Dave,
You are absolutely correct. I'm interested in the Huhnstock version of the P76 rifle.

tnlonghunter said:

I just got back a couple hours ago from the Yorktown Battlefield and Museum. I found this in their display. It's not a great pic, but it was very cool to see as "up close" as a display case will allow.

View attachment 255373

Click to expand...

That's cool! From what I've gathered from period sources, up to 5 rifles were issued to the light infantry companies of most regiments. For instance, the 40th Foot's light company were issued two. These light company riflemen appear to have been assembled into a provisional rifle platoon or company under the 1st Battalion of Light Infantry which was present at Yorktown.

The Huhnstock P76 rifles were produced before the Birmingham rifles (like the one above) were. The Huhnstock rifles likely went to troops in Burgoyne's Northern Army and the 16th Light Dragoons.

Mas Casa said:

Some years ago I saw photos of a reproduction Huhnstock P76 Rifle that someone brought to the Fort Frederick Market Fair. My understanding is that someone in Pennsylvania has the original to cast parts from. I know that there are a few reproductions of the British made P76 rifle.

I'd very much appreciate anyone providing more information on the reproduction parts or the owner of the one pictured.

For historical background, 200 rifles were first produced by Huhnstock for British use during the American Revolution. Another 800 were made by various British makers. The rifles were to be issued to the 16th Light Dragoons as well as to five men in each of the light infantry companies of regiments serving in America.

Click to expand...

Regarding the 1776 rifle pictured in the thread. I believe this is one of the 1776 rifles made by Ernie Cowan. Ernie made around a dozen of them, his 1776 rifles were done very well and very accurately detailed.

The current 1776 TRS rifle kit doesn’t use the same barrel, they use Rice and Colerain which will only rifle up to 6 or 7 grooves.

Hoyt has the 1776 barrel pattern that Cowan used.

I think Ernie also cut his own stock the rifle shoppe’s 1776 stock I believe is not the same as Ernies, not sure of the details as to how it’s different.

and used the lock and hardware castings by either the Rifle Shoppe or Butch Scholer. Dave_Person would likely know more specific details.

OldSmoky1967 said:

The originals are VERY pricey! I have failed to bid enough more than once, and they are really scarce! I shall not make that mistake, again!

Click to expand...

Originals in all but one Case that being the ex Whitacker unused rifle Now at Leeds RA example. are scarcer than hens teeth . Before I met Bob Cheel & had info from Kit Ravenshear of the 4 or 5 examples no others at that time being known there where just 800 'got up 'between the four contractors viz Grice. Barker ,Willets& one other Galton & Son (just looked it up in Blackmore British Military fire arms) .200 each then the Hunstock 200 fairly different make the thousand all being paid for and not the number He then listed seems a lot but surviving ratios of any arm are seldom found surviving be they much greater numbers. Ref page 82 & Page 28 Bailies British Military rifles . My register records. Completed manufacture of 62 cal flint carbine '..Tower rifle' number a 67 the 85 Date & exported 28 6 85 with a note' first replica of one '& 'NY state customer' . What Kit OR De Witt did re TRS I know not but it fits the only comment I learned was it was called ' Fair to rough ' The one that is that went to the National Army Museum as I knew their Armorer .( We where old Rendesvous mates ) Dose all this make me Queen of the May ?. Nope, but it is a source of some pride for me .Stuart Museum & A Mr Bicknel had rifles of this pattern Kit knew them as he worked for Stewart .
Regards Rudyard

FlinterNick said:

Regarding the 1776 rifle pictured in the thread. I believe this is one of the 1776 rifles made by Ernie Cowan. Ernie made around a dozen of them, his 1776 rifles were done very well and very accurately detailed.

The current 1776 TRS rifle kit doesn’t use the same barrel, they use Rice and Colerain which will only rifle up to 6 or 7 grooves.

Hoyt has the 1776 barrel pattern that Cowan used.

I think Ernie also cut his own stock the rifle shoppe’s 1776 stock I believe is not the same as Ernies, not sure of the details as to how it’s different.

and used the lock and hardware castings by either the Rifle Shoppe or Butch Scholer. Dave_Person would likely know more specific details.

Click to expand...

Mr Cowen had Furguson's made he never mentioned the 1776s rifles but I did supply items to him & out of the blue he brought a rifle to my wedding Reception Elks Lodge in Ticonderoga ( The Wedding was up of Mt Defiance we did F & I )Not quite a shotgun wedding but novel!. I wore my feilimore a 12" Dirk & a Snaphance pistol it was the F&I Grand Encampment 1999 seemed a stylish plan .
Regards Rudyard

LeftHandGuy said:

AFAIK the only attested survivors are from the 800 made in England. As @Comfortably_Numb suggests you could use the TRS parts list for the P1776

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_arms/(509).htm
But sub in the different parts from a contemporary Jaeger kit like this one:

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/german_arms/(510).htm
just a thought!

Click to expand...

The order of 1.012 German Rifles bought by & paid for By Ordnance circa 1799 to arm Prince Eugenes in exile regiment Look so very like the West Point Pistor that the same makers kept faithfully to the supposed Revolt war West Point rifle . I bought one years ago didn't know what it was (No one else did either !)Even DeWitt & Herman Benninghoff knew not what it was . But De Witts later research is mentioned in his ' Rifles' book .showing three but dosn't mention the numbered muzzles to match their B nets so my rifle .Bearing number 147 found me when opportune to arrange & examine the few housed in the Leeds RA . And I noted all their numbers .Viz 147, (mine ) 276 , 329 ,708, 874, & 877 De Witt ascribes to Hess Cassel as the source . Thusly in my mind confirming they where most likely those of Prince Eugine's Regiment . Effectively a' Pre Baker' Point being there was little difference in the West Point T, W , Pistor , it bore no proof mark or name of maker but tiny clue is the feather spring has the same style a the Museums ' Pistor ' . The firm was based in Smalkalden Suhl Region but its suggested the Prince Eugine's where produced closer to the UK (Not sure where Hess Cassel is ) .If the same styles seem to change so little its hard to question dates. Even George Shumway said of mine "Its a Jager" and speculated no further .Ide loaned it to H Benninghoff at De Witts insistence he was mostly a Revolt war buff .I finally recovered it & brought it home . .But despite contary views. There where the F&I period indent for "16 Rifles their B 'nets & Moulds" Dated 1758 of which I wondered if my rifle was of that date a possibility we had persued since B' nets where not common with the German Troops dureing the later revolt war Hence naturally these Prince Eugine rifles seemed a possibility . How many & how well spread ? .That I cant but guess If rifles seem more than a possibility . Point being there where SOME rifles midst British troops earlier than some think & state What they looked like ? my guess is probably similar to the Prince Eugenes more or less So Mr Shumway's statement implies the pattern changed but little . Well that's me' Rifled out' for one day .
Regards Rudyard

The Rifle Shoppe has the parts to build one. At least they did the last time I checked. British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840 by De Witt Bailey is a great resource for these rifles. I have a copy that I will sell to you if interested.

ronpardue said:

The Rifle Shoppe has the parts to build one. At least they did the last time I checked. British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840 by De Witt Bailey is a great resource for these rifles. I have a copy that I will sell to you if interested.

Click to expand...

I have my own copy but agree an excellent work I made him a Wilson US style rifle once' Coals to Newcastle !'
Regards Rudyard

Were these to be enfired with ball or a cylindro-conoidal?

Smokey Plainsman said:

Were these to be enfired with ball or a cylindro-conoidal?

Click to expand...

At that date I doubt any govt rifle was intended for any sort of conical. any where , But what some inventor was toying with is an unknown & an unlikely . But one should ever be cautious of saying ' never was 'as some example might pop up to bite you .
Rudyard

Smokey Plainsman said:

Were these to be enfired with ball or a cylindro-conoidal?

Click to expand...

Ball

FlinterNick said:

Ball

Click to expand...

Interesting.

What patching would have been used, if any? Would a mallet have been issued? What about paper cartridges?

I have one put together from parts about 1980 from the Rifle Shoppe. My retired enactor pal sold it to me recently; was assembled by a gunsmith in PA. Haven't shot it yet, but it's sweet to heft. Can't/don't post because I frankly don't have or know how to do it, (camera) and use the library computer! Would have to attend a "senior" class to even learn the basics. The photos posted here are real fine!

springfield art said:

I have one put together from parts about 1980 from the Rifle Shoppe. My retired enactor pal sold it to me recently; was assembled by a gunsmith in PA. Haven't shot it yet, but it's sweet to heft. Can't/don't post because I frankly don't have or know how to do it, (camera) and use the library computer! Would have to attend a "senior" class to even learn the basics. The photos posted here are real fine!

Click to expand...

Interesting Kit Ravenshear lived in PA if the year would be more post 1985 or so. Just looked it up ,my the very first Tower Rifle" was made & sold in1985 it would show Birmingham Proof marks for that year but NB my rifle had the common rod swivels Not the TRS correct one & had a Round face lock (A 'North Star' for want of better at the time) If your rifle has none Or spurious ones .Then its likley some other maker . Regards Rudyard

Mattox Forge said:

There are two of the August Huhnstock made guns still extant. The one shown in De Witt Bailey's book on British Military Flintlock Rifles numbered 184 was sold by Morphy's in 2020.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com...ANOVERIAN_PATTERN_1776_FLINTLO-LOT483833.aspxThere are some good photos on there that, combined with the measurements in Bailey's book, should allow a builder to build a suitable replica.
The rifling is very fast 1:27 on this example. It is also interesting that the barrel is pinned in place, and the pan is bridleless, the only real innovation is the rammer retainer system, which was removed on this example at some point, otherwise, it is a pretty plain German military type Jager rifle. The Baker rifle is closer in butt design to this rifle than it is to the more numerous Birmingham made 1776 rifles.

Mike

Click to expand...

It went for a whopping 33K. Unbelievable.

I would contact the museum at Colonial Williamsburg and ask who made the P1776 that they have on display. Probably English made but you never know.

WalnutRed said:

I would contact the museum at Colonial Williamsburg and ask who made the P1776 that they have on display. Probably English made but you never know.

Click to expand...

If it’s the reproduction on display that was Ernie Cowan’s pattern.

FlinterNick said:

If it’s the reproduction on display that was Ernie Cowan’s pattern.

Click to expand...

Ide like to think it was his pattern, But it wouldnt surprise me if it was from the Herman Benninghoff collection he got one from Kit Ravenshear & might have got the original one that Bob Cheel had I think Benninghoff got that one , there all dead . If I made the first replica but it wouldn't be that one. Ask them they might tell you

RCS58 said:

It went for a whopping 33K. Unbelievable.

Click to expand...

Ide make you one for half the price !. Be just as good & warranted not to burst more than once " Hurry while Stockers last !" I am 79 till the end of the mounth Much beyound I cant predict but the auctioneers photos are very good .
Regards Rudyard

Comfortably_Numb said:

I have built several of those.
1776

Another 1776

Click to expand...

Pretty!