Virginia smooth rifle

smoothshooter said:

Very good observation on eyesight.
I have been saying the same thing for years.
A smooth rifle had a lot going for it in the old days.
Another point to consider is a smoothbore does not require patching material.
There is no reason to believe rifle shooters had access to the variety of patching material that we do now.
What would they do if the bullet diameter out of their only bullet mold and bore dimension required cotton or linen patch material of .010” to .020” and the only cotton material to be found for 50 or 100 miles in any direction was .025” to .035” ?

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They seem to have been picky about patching. Audobon records Boone as buying the best Irish 200 thread count Irish linen

I built a .54 smooth rifle several years ago in a Dickert style - it is versatile and accurate and with older eyes -
easy to sight.
From what I have read smooth rifles were common, we have all just used modern thinking in this hobby and have kept the “Longrifle” lore alive to the point it is hard to think of these guns as ever being smoothies.
To the OP - they were common and mentioned early in America, just purchase or make one and then use it.

My smooth rifle

tenngun said:

They seem to have been picky about patching. Audobon records Boone as buying the best Irish 200 thread count Irish linen

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Daniel Boone was a bit more affluent than most.

Here’s a shot of my “iron mount” smooth rifle. .62 44 inch octagonal to round barrel.

Clark Badgett said:

Daniel Boone was a bit more affluent than most.

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And when Audubon met him he lived near several settlements and trading posts and would have had a much better and varied selection of fabrics available to choose from compared to Boone’s earlier years of living in the wilderness.

sf180a said:

thinking of purchasing a Virginia smooth rifle. I’m wondering about the historical context of these guns. By that I mean what era were they used? Mid 18th century, late 18th century, or early 19th century. Any info or help is greatly appreciated.

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I like to think that if I had been around in Boone’s time and place and could afford and get whatever I wanted, it would have been an early Lancaster styled smooth rifle in .50 to .54 caliber.
Just like the custom .54 caliber one I have been shooting for 24 years.
Shoots good out to 75+ yards with or without patching.
Love it! Very practical in several ways.

smoothshooter said:

And when Audubon met him he lived near several settlements and trading posts and would have had a much better and varied selection of fabrics available to choose from compared to Boone’s earlier years of living in the wilderness.

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From as far as our knowledge of his adventures when ever he went beyond the pale he was in a prepared group
A square yard has 1200 square inches. I doubt Boone went through that much at 2x2 that’s a shot a day for a year

The term "smoothrifle" shows up in ads pre 1800.
And there are examples, for smooth rifles, from the mid 1700s.
If they were just worn rifles bored smooth there wouldn't be reference to them in ads.
The bigger question is to define, "what is/was, a Virginia rifle."

tenngun said:

From as far as our knowledge of his adventures when ever he went beyond the pale he was in a prepared group
A square yard has 1200 square inches. I doubt Boone went through that much at 2x2 that’s a shot a day for a year

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Early on, he only travelled with one or two other people; and a couple of times he was all on his own for months at a time.
Once be was gone so long that his wife finally concluded that he was dead and not coming back, and months later gave birth to a girl child fathered by Boone’s brother.

smoothshooter said:

Early on, he only travelled with one or two other people; and a couple of times he was all on his own for months at a time.
Once be was gone so long that his wife finally concluded that he was dead and not coming back, and months later gave birth to a girl child fathered by Boone’s brother.

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I don’t recall a time when he went very far alone or in company of two. But not to argue that how much space does even two yards take up on a pack horse?

nchawkeye said:

A couple of observations, prior to the Revolution, very few barrels or locks were made in Colonial America...Barrels came from both the Germanic areas as well as England, we know this from the records that the Moravians kept...If the gunsmith wanted a rifled barrel, they were rifled here, in America...So, if you had a customer that wanted a smooth rifle, it would be easily made from the barrels in stock also...Were they ordered smooth because the gunsmith knew not all customers would want rifles??

Another observation...After 2-250 years, how do we know that barrel that is now smooth was originally rifled?? Remember, they were made from iron, not steel and those that were used quite a bit may indeed have been rifled, bored out, refreshed, etc...

Were there smooth rifles made in the Colonies, sure, how many? What percentage would have been smooth originally? Nobody really knows...

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I remember an interesting conversation I had with the original owner of Dixon muzzleloaders, his name slips me I didn’t know him long before I moved but every time I was there he taught me a lot and we talked about God and guns BUT to get back on track, he said to me that many of the original guns we see that are smooth were not smooth to begin with. He said that over time the guns had Been rerifled to the point they couldn’t anymore so they were smoothed and that was that. I was always interested by this and kept it in the back of my mind. Do I have proof of it… no but he knew a lot more about that stuff then I do

It's also possible it might be a Virginia thing. ("Long Hunters" were pretty much something out of Virginia too.) For example there are no records in Maryland Archives that ever mention a "smooth rifle" or a "smoothbore rifle". IF they do they are hidden by the term "firelock" and no mention of the exterior resemblance to a rifle is made.

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

It's also possible it might be a Virginia thing. ("Long Hunters" were pretty much something out of Virginia too.) For example there are no records in Maryland Archives that ever mention a "smooth rifle" or a "smoothbore rifle". IF they do they are hidden by the term "firelock" and no mention of the exterior resemblance to a rifle is made.

LD

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Look for rifle mounted fusil
Derringer would supply a hundred ‘rifle mounted fusils’ to the US government.
Ned Roberts talks about a hunter in New Hampshire who had a “Kentucky fowler’ a ‘Kentucky rifle with smooth bore of .65 caliber

tenngun said:

Look for rifle mounted fusil
Derringer would supply a hundred ‘rifle mounted fusils’ to the US government.
Ned Roberts talks about a hunter in New Hampshire who had a “Kentucky fowler’ a ‘Kentucky rifle with smooth bore of .65 caliber

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Fusil had several different meanings in that period as well. It could be a light military style musket, a fowler or just a long gun regardless of the type of bore. Deringer made trade guns, the Indians liked either actual rifles or actual smoothbore types, they didn’t really like smooth rifles.

lbothell said:

I remember an interesting conversation I had with the original owner of Dixon muzzleloaders, his name slips me I didn’t know him long before I moved but every time I was there he taught me a lot and we talked about God and guns BUT to get back on track, he said to me that many of the original guns we see that are smooth were not smooth to begin with. He said that over time the guns had Been rerifled to the point they couldn’t anymore so they were smoothed and that was that. I was always interested by this and kept it in the back of my mind. Do I have proof of it… no but he knew a lot more about that stuff then I do

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This was once held as truth and passed on as such. If it were so, why do we see early to mid 18th century ads listing, "fowling pieces neatly finished, rifle guns, and smooth rifle guns, same."

lbothell said:

He said that over time the guns had Been rerifled to the point they couldn’t anymore so they were smoothed and that was that.

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That is still being done. A few years ago I smoothed the bore of a Jukar 54 cal flintlock using a home made hone. It shot so good a gentelman I met at the range while trying it out bought it on the spot. I caught a lot of flack for honing the bore here but it was traditional and I knew it. Bobby Hoyt does that all the time with expensive equipment.

tenngun said:

I don’t recall a time when he went very far alone or in company of two. But not to argue that how much space does even two yards take up on a pack horse?

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On one of his first trips he went with a good friend only. Once deep in the “ Kaintuck “ region they set up a semi-permanent camp. They would split up most mornings and explore in different directions, meeting back at camp each evening to discuss what each had found.
One evening, his friend did not show up. In fact he never returned. Boone searched for him for days, worried that he may have had a bad encounter with a bear, hostile Indians, or had some accident. Not found.
Years later Boone was part of a military expedition, acting as a guide and scout or something. The army was traveling in a slow-moving column led by a contingent of axe men chopping a crude road path through the dense trees and brush.
One day, the front of the column stopped, and Boone, at the time riding some distance to the rear, was called forward. While everyone waited he made his way to the front to see what was going on.
When he got there, the axe men showed him a large trunked hollow dead tree with an opening at the bottom, that had been upright until they chopped it down. Inside was a human skeleton with a broken upper arm, with patches of clothing on. Attached to the skeleton was a personalized powder horn on a strap that Boone recognized instantly as the one carried by his friend that had disappeared all those years before. The victim had apparently been seriously injured somehow, and, hiding inside the tree had died some time later.
What were the odds of Boone’s old friend being found like that??!!
Sorry I do not remember the man’s name, but I have seen it in print several times years ago, and he had been the one to talk Boone into making the trip with him.

PS- I just now, 20 minutes after posting my comment above, remembered that the guy who disappeared had the last name of Findley.
Fairly sure that was the name.

lbothell said:

I remember an interesting conversation I had with the original owner of Dixon muzzleloaders, his name slips me I didn’t know him long before I moved but every time I was there he taught me a lot and we talked about God and guns BUT to get back on track, he said to me that many of the original guns we see that are smooth were not smooth to begin with. He said that over time the guns had Been rerifled to the point they couldn’t anymore so they were smoothed and that was that. I was always interested by this and kept it in the back of my mind. Do I have proof of it… no but he knew a lot more about that stuff then I do

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I have been shooting a .54 smooth rifle off and on for 24 years and can tell you it has several distinct advantages over a musket or rifled gun.
A couple of drawbacks, also, but for general use on the early American frontier it would it would be almost perfect, in my opinion.