Flintlock accuracy and need help finding load

My flintlock shooting is incredibly horrendous. Like ... I'm doing absolutely great if I can hold a 3" group at 50.

I have no problems with ignition reliability. It's a chambers late ketland and seems plenty fast as long as I keep the frozen clean and flint sharp.

I can't tell if the poor groups or lack thereof are me or the barrel/gun. I built it, and the bore of the barrel has some irregularities. I know I flint a bit sometimes, so it could also be me.

I'm wondering, worst case scenario for a flintlock (bad barrel, bad bedding, etc) what is the expected accuracy at 100 for a shooter that is proficient?

Also, is there anyone within an hour or two of salt lake city that is a good flintlock shooter that wouldn't mind helping me sight in and far and the best load? I'm not good enough at shooting it to do so. And I'd like to see what a proficient shooter can do with it to see if it's me that's terrible or if it's the gun or both. It's a 58 with a slow twist and I'm trying to get it sighted with a good load for a hunt in a few weeks.

Are you shooting too heavy a load? Do you rest the butt on a sandbag along with the forestock? I would say hitting a small dessert paper plate at 100 yards would be acceptable accuracy for hunting a deer.

You did not mention the patch, ball, powder charge you are using. When sighting in, you should also use a rest so you are testing the rifle versus your shooting ability. (a sand bag muzzle rest works well) This will also help reduce the impact of flinching. Another suggestion you might try is use a paper plate with a cross made of blue masking tape as your sight in targets. The cross helps you with your sight picture, up or down, right or left of center. You can make notes on the plate and change them with each load combo to review later. Chambers makes good stuff so work on the load first. With a slow twist .58 you will probably see good results with 80 to 90 grains of 2FF or 3FFF equivalent as a starting load.

I've lots of experience in shooting accurately with my CF rifle, so just didn't think to include the other specifics as I know they're not a factor.

It's a colerain 58 round/deep groove, 36" x1", shooting 0.570 hand cast balls within a 1gr weight spread, schuetzen 2f, with 12oz denim from joanns (measures 0.022/3 with calipers compressed hard after washing), lubed with TOW mink oil.

Shooting off sand bags, front and rear. Front is just in front of the entry pipe as that is where it hold it shooting off hand.

I've smoothed the crown so that the patches are completely intact with no damage...and they look good after shooting . There's no problem there.

The bore was incredibly rough when new. The lands had deep chatter marks all the way down. After many rounds of scrubbing with a grey 3m pad as well as Lee Shavers "breake in" method with steel wool, it loads much smoother than it used to and the chatter marks are not as bad.

There's a real tight spot near the muzzle... It's hard to get started and the first 5-6" are tough and then it gets easy and smooth as silk most the rest of the way.

My loads have been 65, 70, 75, 80, 120, 130, 140. I have not found anything that seems more accurate than another, except it may have seemed a little more accurate at 140 today than 120.... But it could have just been coincidence.

Over the summer, I did a lot of shooting with 65gr load just to try to get better at holding through the shot to see if I could tell if it was me or not, and still no progress. Couldn't tell if I was flinching, if the load was any good, etc.

It drives me crazy because I can shoot my 243win out to 800 just fine! A flintlock it's a totally different animal.

Have you found any of the fired patches and checked for burn through or tears?

stubshaft said:

Have you found any of the fired patches and checked for burn through or tears?

Click to expand...

Yes, see my previous post. The patch doesn't have any tears or burn through

Have someone else shoot it, some people don't shoot well from a bench.

Try this, a load development method …

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...d-development’-to-find-the-best-group.169960/

if you flinch at all, IT IS YOU!

I live about 5 hours north. Have an available guest cabin, and a full, big game woods-walk course.
You'll have a great weekend(!)....even if you're still flinching when you leave.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/bridger-mountain-men-shoot.151978/

Here's a few pics from the past.

Freedom said:

I live about 5 hours north. Have an available guest cabin, and a full, big game woods-walk course.
You'll have a great weekend(!)....even if you're still flinching when you leave.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/bridger-mountain-men-shoot.151978/

Here's a few pics from the past.

Click to expand...

oh i wish SC wasn't so far away from you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You might try a muzzle rest to see if that stabilizes your point of impact for sight in purposes. Resting at the entry pipe can create a bit of a swivel effect, particularly if you are anticipating recoil which can happen with a .58 off the bench.

Absoroka said:

You might try a muzzle rest to see if that stabilizes your point of impact for sight in purposes. Resting at the entry pipe can create a bit of a swivel effect, particularly if you are anticipating recoil which can happen with a .58 off the bench.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I will try that.

Here's a few targets from 50 yards. Various charges of 2f.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't flinching as badly as these make it look.

I have heard tales, and seen wallet targets, and pictures of flintlock muzzleloaders shooting a patched round ball into touching cloverleafs at a 100 yards, but I have yet seen it done in real time. I think that people expect accuracy performance from a muzzleloader to be on power with their unmentionables, and this causes expectations beyond possibility, which turns into frustration. Three inch groups at 50 yards or 6 inch groups at 100 yards consistently does not seem like a bad thing for hunting. A flintlocks ignition time can cause some sighting in frustrations. Try 3f main charge, and 4f in pan.

Please show us some recovered patches.

Tom A Hawk said:

Please show us some recovered patches.

Click to expand...

I'll have to go to another range next time and gather patches . The range I was at I'm not able to cross the firing line.

If you don't know whether or not you're flinching, then you probably are.

When I sight a gun in, or test a load, I always shoot from the prone position. It has always worked better for me that way. I don't use a rest under the breech of the gun; and my sandbag out front is placed about three inches from the muzzle. With the fulcrum point of the arm way out there, and slight movement on my part (back at the breech) is minimized at the muzzle. On the other hand, if your fulcrum point is near the center of the arm... then 1/8" of movement at the breach translates into 1/8" at the muzzle. That makes a huge difference at 50 yards.

My old .58 had a Colerain barrel, with their standard twist of 56 inches. It shot wonderfully with 70 grs of 3f, a heavy ticking patch, and a .562 ball.

I would recommend staying with one load... a mild one... while you work through your flinch. Heavier loads will tend to make it worse.

one more thing folks do that reinforces the flinch, is filling the pan to full with prime. using 3f swiss, a 1/16th vent hole, many times if i see as many as 10 granules of powder trickled out into the pan through the vent, I can forego any additional priming.
when folks fill the pan they are creating an eruption that is hard to ignore.

Mgbruch said:

If you don't know whether or not you're flinching, then you probably are.

When I sight a gun in, or test a load, I always shoot from the prone position. It has always worked better for me that way. I don't use a rest under the breech of the gun; and my sandbag out front is placed about three inches from the muzzle. With the fulcrum point of the arm way out there, and slight movement on my part (back at the breech) is minimized at the muzzle. On the other hand, if your fulcrum point is near the center of the arm... then 1/8" of movement at the breach translates into 1/8" at the muzzle. That makes a huge difference at 50 yards.

My old .58 had a Colerain barrel, with their standard twist of 56 inches. It shot wonderfully with 70 grs of 3f, a heavy ticking patch, and a .562 ball.

I would recommend staying with one load... a mild one... while you work through your flinch. Heavier loads will tend to make it worse.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll try that next time although I'm not sure about the prone position with this gun. It's heel drop and butt plate shape make it pretty hard to shoot comfortably prone, but I'll try it.

This colerain is either 66" or 70" twist. I can't remember which. 70gr 3f would be similar to... 90gr 2f? I don't have any 3f.