• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

How Does a Touch Hole Liner Improve Reliability?

shop deals on amazon
L & R
Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Newbert

Newbert

32 Cal
Joined
Nov 8, 2024
Messages
15
Reaction score
8
Location
Canada
As per an earlier thread I'm in the process of "back loading" my rifle with a dry ball and in doing so I removed the touch hole liner.

I am curious what exactly this piece does. All my searching says it makes firing and igniting your primary charge more reliable, but I dont understand how.

The liner seems to be a threaded insert that makes the touch hole about 60% more narrow.

If anything, by narrowing the hole wouldn't it only make it harder for an ember from the pan to actually reach the powder? Clearly the people who invented this piece and the people still using them aren't fools so it's me who is ignorant but could someone explain this?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate everyone's responses. They are very helpful
 
I cant really say, an engineer probably could, but I replaced the one on my GPR, and now have 100% reliability. The new RMC OX-YOKE one I put in is hour glass shaped. I am guessing it disperses the heat better? Definitely kept me from sucking my rifle in the creek.
 
We're not necessarily relying on a spark or ember going through the touchhole, as much as we're relying on the flash of heat (BP has a very low flashpoint). As others have mentioned, a coned or flared internal section of the touch hole provides a wider section with more powder right behind the hole to accelerate ignition.
 
Newbert said:
As per an earlier thread I'm in the process of "back loading" my rifle with a dry ball and in doing so I removed the touch hole liner.

I am curious what exactly this piece does. All my searching says it makes firing and igniting your primary charge more reliable, but I dont understand how.

The liner seems to be a threaded insert that makes the touch hole about 60% more narrow.

If anything, by narrowing the hole wouldn't it only make it harder for an ember from the pan to actually reach the powder? Clearly the people who invented this piece and the people still using them aren't fools so it's me who is ignorant but could someone explain this?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate everyone's responses. They are very helpful
Click to expand...
You are incorrect about narrower. Yes narrower from the widened funnel diameter on a TH liner, but not more narrow then the basic 1/16" diameter that usually works the best. That 1/16" is the TH flash hole dimension.
The liner's purpose shortens the flash path to the powder, which of course shortens ignition time. A SS liner also provides longer life to a TH that is just a hole in the barrel.
Larry
 
Newbert said:
If anything, by narrowing the hole wouldn't it only make it harder for an ember from the pan to actually reach the powder? Clearly the people who invented this piece and the people still using them aren't fools so it's me who is ignorant but could someone explain this?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate everyone's responses. They are very helpful
Click to expand...
It isn't an ember from the flash pan that ignites the main charge. It is the heat of the flame that does that job. The touch hole liner is coned on the inside. This moves the powder in the bore a little closer to the heat source when the priming charge ignites.
 
I have a rifle without a touch hole liner. It is reliable, but not quite as much as my other rifles with liners. It is also just a tad slower ignition time. It all works fine, but I have to be a little more careful in my loading regimen and I always pick the touch hole to ensure a clear channel where I don't have to do that with liners.
 
In terms of speed of ignition and increased reliability, the liner itself is not doing anything. The fact that the liner is internally coned and allowing the pan charge to be closer to the main powder charge is what is changing the equation. Most people do not have the proper tools or ability to internally cone the barrel itself, so it is easier to buy or make an internally coned liner and simply drill and tap it into the barrel. Also, as noted above, the materials of which most liners are typically made have a higher resistance to corrosion and burnout than soft iron or 12L (most modern barrels), which is another more modern consideration.

Historically liners were very uncommon on American arms and much more common on higher quality European civilian arms. Most were made of gold or platinum for the corrosion resistance and burn resistance.

Straight drilled vents tend to be of larger size than the common (today) 1/16" or less to accommodate the increased distance from pan to main charge. And they need to be picked religiously.
 
Larry Pletcher's testing found that a liner increased ignition speed a small amount (around 10% I believe) for clean unfouled barrels and liners. The main difference noted was how much cleaner the coned liner stayed as opposed to a long parallel sided hole. His conclusion was this is the main advantage.
 
As stated before ....the liner is a large cone on the inside so the main charge , the powder at the breech, is much closer to the pan ... I like to make a cone on the inside of my touch hole , round ball bit on Moto tool , and I drill my touch hole a little bigger than most , 5/64 , and then I drill , ( JUST a bit ! ) from the outside , a .092 ....just to cone the outside of the T.H. I like it . With that set up and the proper placement of the T.H. in relation to the pan , centered , level with top of pan , the ignition is VERY fast ! ....
 
Rob M. said:
Rob M. said:
As stated before ....the liner is a large cone on the inside so the main charge , the powder at the breech, is much closer to the pan ... I like to make a cone on the inside of my touch hole , round ball bit on Moto tool , and I drill my touch hole a little bigger than most , 5/64 , and then I drill , ( JUST a bit ! ) from the outside , a .092 ....just to cone the outside of the T.H. I like it . With that set up and the proper placement of the T.H. in relation to the pan , centered , level with top of pan , the ignition is VERY fast ! ....
Click to expand...
I make my own liners of tool steel and much prefer to cone the exterior rather than the interior thus achieving the same dynamic and discouraging exit flash/pressure with the interior coning. This design vectors the flash from the pan inward rather then the pressure from the main charge ignition outward.
Click to expand...
I have never cared for White lightning liners with the interior coning as they vector a lot of main charge pressure outward unnecessarily. The same dynamic of shortening flash hole length can be achieved in reverse with better main charge pressure containment.
 
Last edited:
I built a NWG from Track of the wolf. In keeping with the way they were sold I drilled a straight touch hole but was unsatisfied with the ignition
I’ve shot flinters since 1977 and don’t notice a delay, but on this I noticed a delay right away.
I shoot ten to fifteen shots in an outing, and maybe shot a hundred rounds through it.
Just never got used to the slow ignition
Replaced it with a white lining and it shot like a dream
My time is more eighteenth century and the gun didn’t fit, so I sold it for cost.
All my flinters have a liner except one, a 76 cal musket with a straight touch hole. And in that I don’t notice a delay
 
Newbert said:
As per an earlier thread I'm in the process of "back loading" my rifle with a dry ball and in doing so I removed the touch hole liner.

I am curious what exactly this piece does. All my searching says it makes firing and igniting your primary charge more reliable, but I dont understand how.

The liner seems to be a threaded insert that makes the touch hole about 60% more narrow.

If anything, by narrowing the hole wouldn't it only make it harder for an ember from the pan to actually reach the powder? Clearly the people who invented this piece and the people still using them aren't fools so it's me who is ignorant but could someone explain this?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate everyone's responses. They are very helpful
Click to expand...
In answer to your question, they don't necessarily ! Keep in mind flash hole liners for the average flint gun is a modern notion as virtually all of the originals we settled America with never started life with flash hole liners. They were most often employed for repairs when flash holes became eroded from hard usage or cleaning neglect.
 
Last edited:
I put liners in all the rifles i sell. my keepers are all 1/16th hole drilled far enough in front of the breach plug to clear if a liner is needed later due to wear. also i modified a right angle ratchet screw driver and cone the inside of the touch hole on those that are wanted with just a touch hole. acts like the coned liners. not a process for those in a hurry.
 
Newbert said:
As per an earlier thread I'm in the process of "back loading" my rifle with a dry ball and in doing so I removed the touch hole liner.

I am curious what exactly this piece does. All my searching says it makes firing and igniting your primary charge more reliable, but I dont understand how.

The liner seems to be a threaded insert that makes the touch hole about 60% more narrow.

If anything, by narrowing the hole wouldn't it only make it harder for an ember from the pan to actually reach the powder? Clearly the people who invented this piece and the people still using them aren't fools so it's me who is ignorant but could someone explain this?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate everyone's responses. They are very helpful
Click to expand...
From what I can determine from actual experience is that it's the flash from the pan powder ignition through the flash hole that most efficiently ignites the main charge not the fuse burn effect of a powder filled flash hole. This is why I also feel that coning the flash hole from the exterior is a better option of increasing ignition efficiency . It seems to achieve the same dynamic of speed and reliability by lessening the flash channel length and discouraging the vectoring of internal pressure outward.
 
I have seen guys shooting guns without liners who have cones the touch hole a bit trying to direct the flash into the chamber. I have only ever shot production guns and the first thing I do is buy a Uncle Mike's liner.
 
Relief of the touch hole entry does improve the flow of heat from the pan through the touch hole. The heated air can be thought of as a fluid. When a fluid encounters sharp corners, turbulence develops disrupting the efficient transfer of heat to the powder charge. It only takes a little bit of relief to improve fluid flow. With an internal cone, that powder is no longer a fuse but by being many times larger than the touch hole, that powder is a part of the main charge.
 

Similar threads

E
Touch hole liner conundrum
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
Long Drinkwater
L
Oldbear63
Touch hole insert
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
kyron4
K
K
How long before a touch hole needs replaced ?
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
M. De Land
M
M
Touch hole liner fit
Replies
12
Views
1K
M. De Land
M
Mule333
Touch Hole Liner Repair, Plug, and Redrill
2 3
Replies
42
Views
3K
ZUG
ZUG

Latest posts

Back
Top