Ruger Old Army

TFoley · Apr 15, 2021

nightwolf1974 said:
This is the ONLY thing about ROAs I dislike, that's why I keep putting off on buying another or S&B when avialable).

The problem is not the revolver, it's the hamfisted operator, and in my defenc/se, it wasn't me, yer'onner. I loaned it to the guy next to me to Demonstrate and shoot so's I could load up and shoot a few Miniés from my Musketoon, he being a well-regarded shooter, and, like me, an NRA BP-qualified RCO.

I make a special thing of making certain sure that the lock is locked on every occasion I have for taking the cylinder out on the range, which, if I'm truthful, is not very often

If that's the only excuse you have for not buying a ROA then all I can say is that there are obviously way too many of them around where you are. Here in UK you CAN luck in, but usually expect to pay around the $850-900 - Vaquero versions even more.

nightwolf1974 · Apr 15, 2021

TFoley said:
The problem is not the revolver, it's the hamfisted operator, and in my defenc/se, it wasn't me, yer'onner. I loaned it to the guy next to me to Demonstrate and shoot so's I could load up and shoot a few Miniés from my Musketoon, he being a well-regarded shooter, and, like me, an NRA BP-qualified RCO.

I make a special thing of making certain sure that the lock is locked on every occasion I have for taking the cylinder out on the range, which, if I'm truthful, is not very often

If that's the only excuse you have for not buying a ROA then all I can say is that there are obviously way too many of them around where you are. Here in UK you CAN luck in, but usually expect to pay around the $850-900 - Vaquero versions even more.

That's what they run for (and more) here too mostly.

11th corps · Apr 16, 2021

Thanks for the chart of production.
My two were made in 1974 and 1976. I bought mine (1974) nib while still living in Indianapolis from a little gun shop off Pendleton Pike on the east side of town. Every other weekend my wife and I would travel back to our hometown and I would shoot with my Dad. He liked mine so well he bought his own -1976 production.
When Dad passed I inherited his. I haven't had either out in some time, need to get them some exercise.

Choppis · Nov 6, 2024

user 33697 said:
I also load my ROA using a cylinder loading press rather than risk bending the base pin. A year ago I purchased an Old Army Quick Change Kit from BeltMountain.com that easily allows removing the cylinder rather than hassling with removing/installing the OEM base pin/loading lever assembly when using my cylinder press. Belt Mountain still makes the quick change cylinder kit. Below is a snap shot of the kit. You have to ask for the kit as blued or stainless steel.

View attachment 71397

I've been trying to get ahold of one of these kits but no response from Belt mountain anyone know we're I can buy one of these or would anyone happen to have one they would sell?

Smokerr · Nov 6, 2024

I don't see the problem, loading .457 in mine is no issue.

.454 a tad easier.

Keeping in mind what people ask for these and what they get are two different things. I lot advertised high and they just expire and then repeat over and over as they never sell.

Both of mine were picked up at under $600. One was a 94 and not shot. The other a Centennial and shot some. I like the 94 better, the steel frame makes a bit of difference in how it shoots.

Bad Karma · Wednesday at 7:54 PM

I’ve owned and used the ROA since they were first introduced. A wonderful revolver and I’ve never owned one that couldn’t be coaxed into producing gilt edged accuracy. I did not know that the design was based on the truly remarkable Colt 1858 Remington New Model Army! In that case I love them all the more.

Courtesy of Gunbroker…

“The Ruger Old Army .45 Cal Cap & Ball Percussion Revolver is a modern take on the traditional black powder revolvers used in the 19th century. Introduced by Sturm, Ruger & Co. in 1972, the Old Army revolver combines the classic aesthetics and function of cap and ball revolvers with the robust construction and precision engineering characteristic of Ruger firearms. Though it is no longer in production, the Ruger Old Army remains a popular choice among black powder enthusiasts and collectors for its reliability, durability, and historical charm. Chambered in .45 caliber, the Ruger Old Army uses cap and ball loading, which involves placing a percussion cap on the nipple at the rear of each chamber, filling the chamber with black powder, and then seating a lead ball or conical bullet on top. This method replicates the loading process of Civil War-era revolvers, providing an authentic shooting experience. The .45 caliber offers significant stopping power and accuracy, making it suitable for both target shooting and hunting. The design of the Ruger Old Army is heavily influenced by the Colt 1858 Remington New Model Army, known for its solid frame and top strap design. This construction provides superior strength and stability compared to the open-top design of other contemporary revolvers. The solid frame of the Ruger Old Army enhances its durability, making it capable of withstanding heavy use and the high pressures generated by black powder loads. The revolver features a 7.5-inch barrel, which contributes to its excellent accuracy and ballistic performance. The longer barrel length provides a longer sight radius, making it easier to aim and hit targets at various distances. The barrel and other metal components are high-quality stainless steel, offering corrosion resistance.”

45D · Wednesday at 10:20 PM

Bad Karma said:
I’ve owned and used the ROA since they were first introduced. A wonderful revolver and I’ve never owned one that couldn’t be coaxed into producing gilt edged accuracy. I did not know that the design was based on the truly remarkable Colt 1858 Remington New Model Army! In that case I love them all the more.

Courtesy of Gunbroker…

“The Ruger Old Army .45 Cal Cap & Ball Percussion Revolver is a modern take on the traditional black powder revolvers used in the 19th century. Introduced by Sturm, Ruger & Co. in 1972, the Old Army revolver combines the classic aesthetics and function of cap and ball revolvers with the robust construction and precision engineering characteristic of Ruger firearms. Though it is no longer in production, the Ruger Old Army remains a popular choice among black powder enthusiasts and collectors for its reliability, durability, and historical charm. Chambered in .45 caliber, the Ruger Old Army uses cap and ball loading, which involves placing a percussion cap on the nipple at the rear of each chamber, filling the chamber with black powder, and then seating a lead ball or conical bullet on top. This method replicates the loading process of Civil War-era revolvers, providing an authentic shooting experience. The .45 caliber offers significant stopping power and accuracy, making it suitable for both target shooting and hunting. The design of the Ruger Old Army is heavily influenced by the Colt 1858 Remington New Model Army, known for its solid frame and top strap design. This construction provides superior strength and stability compared to the open-top design of other contemporary revolvers. The solid frame of the Ruger Old Army enhances its durability, making it capable of withstanding heavy use and the high pressures generated by black powder loads. The revolver features a 7.5-inch barrel, which contributes to its excellent accuracy and ballistic performance. The longer barrel length provides a longer sight radius, making it easier to aim and hit targets at various distances. The barrel and other metal components are high-quality stainless steel, offering corrosion resistance.”

Yep, that's amazing ain't it?!! That Colt 1858 Remington was really something!!! Especially that "top strap" and "solid frame" giving it the ability to withstand those high pressure black powder loads, makes you wonder why the gun community didn't revert back to black powder across the board!!! Sheesh!!
Oh yeah the 7.5" barrel length reaching way past that wimpy 8" 1860 Army barrel gives a much greater sight plane!

Mike

Dickydalton · Wednesday at 11:28 PM

45D said:
Yep, that's amazing ain't it?!! That Colt 1858 Remington was really something!!! Especially that "top strap" and "solid frame" giving it the ability to withstand those high pressure black powder loads, makes you wonder why the gun community didn't revert back to black powder across the board!!! Sheesh!!
Oh yeah the 7.5" barrel length reaching way past that wimpy 8" 1860 Army barrel gives a much greater sight plane!

Mike

I don't know whether to puke or laugh myself sick...

Bad Karma · Thursday at 1:15 AM

45D said:
Yep, that's amazing ain't it?!! That Colt 1858 Remington was really something!!! Especially that "top strap" and "solid frame" giving it the ability to withstand those high pressure black powder loads, makes you wonder why the gun community didn't revert back to black powder across the board!!! Sheesh!!
Oh yeah the 7.5" barrel length reaching way past that wimpy 8" 1860 Army barrel gives a much greater sight plane!

Mike

I’m hoping he lists the 5.5” version, can’t wait for the spin on that one!

Dickydalton · Thursday at 1:37 PM

I have that covered!

M. De Land · Thursday at 1:50 PM

TFoley said:
The problem is not the revolver, it's the hamfisted operator, and in my defenc/se, it wasn't me, yer'onner. I loaned it to the guy next to me to Demonstrate and shoot so's I could load up and shoot a few Miniés from my Musketoon, he being a well-regarded shooter, and, like me, an NRA BP-qualified RCO.

I make a special thing of making certain sure that the lock is locked on every occasion I have for taking the cylinder out on the range, which, if I'm truthful, is not very often

If that's the only excuse you have for not buying a ROA then all I can say is that there are obviously way too many of them around where you are. Here in UK you CAN luck in, but usually expect to pay around the $850-900 - Vaquero versions even more.

True, I've never seen or heard of the rod bending unless you forget to lock it in position before use. Besides that they are not impossible to make if one has the tooling and some steel rod stock.

M. De Land · Thursday at 2:24 PM

45D said:
Yep, that's amazing ain't it?!! That Colt 1858 Remington was really something!!! Especially that "top strap" and "solid frame" giving it the ability to withstand those high pressure black powder loads, makes you wonder why the gun community didn't revert back to black powder across the board!!! Sheesh!!
Oh yeah the 7.5" barrel length reaching way past that wimpy 8" 1860 Army barrel gives a much greater sight plane!

Mike

Pressure per se as in hoop stress is not really the issue with open frame strength limitation ,it's trust which is an accompanying dynamic as a result of high of pressure. The same is true of any bolt rifle that supports the back thrust of the cartridge pressure with a single lug (one side) or multiple lugs (two or more sides) of the thrust vector. In this case the thrust pressure against the barrel being supported from both sides (solid frame) as opposed to only one (open frame)
and the more material supporting the thrust as in the lower frame and back strap (solid frame) as opposed to the wedge slot weakened arbor of open frame design.

45D · Thursday at 3:44 PM

M. De Land said:
Pressure per se as in hoop stress is not really the issue with open frame strength limitation ,it's trust which is an accompanying dynamic as a result of high of pressure. The same is true of any bolt rifle that supports the back thrust of the cartridge pressure with a single lug (one side) or multiple lugs (two or more sides) of the thrust vector. In this case the thrust pressure against the barrel being supported from both sides (solid frame) as opposed to only one (open frame)
and the more material supporting the thrust as in the lower frame and back strap (solid frame) as opposed to the wedge slot weakened arbor of open frame design.

Ok, you always say "open frame" and it's not. An "open frame" would be a top strap revolver with the "top strap" removed . . . . that isn't what an "open TOP" is!! An "open top" is a "closed frame" affair with a (brilliant) "disconnect" to allow disassembly. No matter what anyone's personal perception of it is, the fact is, it is a brilliant construct from a thoroughly mechanical time. I've shown multiple times how well the "open-top" compares to a "perimeter" top strap frame and it can not be denied.
All my ammo for either of my '60 Armys (45acp) or Dragoons (45C) is of 21K psi and above ( mostly 23K +). Of course my ROA's with Kirst cylinders shoot the same but, my "lowly Pietta" Frontier in 45C /45acp can't handle what my open-top revolvers can. Wonder why that is ? Maybe the top strap isn't "thick" enough and or wide enough ? Of course the venerable Colt SAA can't either but modern made b.p. reproduction O.T.'s can !! The Dragoons? Easily . . . the Armys? 2,000 + rounds - no problem . . .

Mike

Smokerr · Thursday at 3:57 PM

Yep, that's amazing ain't it?!! That Colt 1858 Remington was really something!!! Especially that "top strap" and "solid frame" giving it the ability to withstand those high pressure black powder loads, makes you wonder why the gun community didn't revert back to black powder across the board!!! Sheesh!!
Oh yeah the 7.5" barrel length reaching way past that wimpy 8" 1860 Army barrel gives a much greater sight plane!

I would say that was a Red Flag for 45D. Well I find it absurd as well. So let us count the ways (or my added take)

Granted Ruger should have used their Open Top Colt design for the offering, not that silly closed top strap type. So that is a serious knock right there.

Then there is the worst rammer system you can come up with. Not one, not two, but THREE parts that fall apart when you remove the cylinder. Worst possible choice and it was a choice, not a clue what Bill was thinking there but you can only say it sucks.

The Open Top also get an added sight bonus as the sight notch in the hammer extends that beyond what a top strap does. 12 1/2 Inches on a 47 Walker!

Or the fact that the adjustable sight has POI too high and you can't get enough wind-age out of it (and the setup for travel is iffy).

Or you could amend this to, Ruger used what they had from their offerings and came out with a reasonably priced modern take on a BP that overall did a good job.

I have a number of pistols, by far the best two for sight clarity are the 47 Walker (with some work) and the ROA. So give the ROA credit, with its less sight radius you do get a very good sight picture and that is what counts.

Smokerr · Thursday at 3:59 PM

No matter what anyone's personal perception of it is, the fact is, it is a brilliant construct from a thoroughly mechanical time. I've shown multiple times how well the "open-top" compares to a "perimeter" top strap frame and it can not be denied.

I would have been one of the doubters sans my lust for that big bad 47 Walker and 45D explaining the system such that I was willing to give it a try. I have not been disappointed. Actually I have been impressed and that don't come easy from this old dog.

M. De Land · Thursday at 5:02 PM

45D said:
Ok, you always say "open frame" and it's not. An "open frame" would be a top strap revolver with the "top strap" removed . . . . that isn't what an "open TOP" is!! An "open top" is a "closed frame" affair with a (brilliant) "disconnect" to allow disassembly. No matter what anyone's personal perception of it is, the fact is, it is a brilliant construct from a thoroughly mechanical time. I've shown multiple times how well the "open-top" compares to a "perimeter" top strap frame and it can not be denied.
All my ammo for either of my '60 Armys (45acp) or Dragoons (45C) is of 21K psi and above ( mostly 23K +). Of course my ROA's with Kirst cylinders shoot the same but, my "lowly Pietta" Frontier in 45C /45acp can't handle what my open-top revolvers can. Wonder why that is ? Maybe the top strap isn't "thick" enough and or wide enough ? Of course the venerable Colt SAA can't either but modern made b.p. reproduction O.T.'s can !! The Dragoons? Easily . . . the Armys? 2,000 + rounds - no problem . . .

Mike

You keep trying to defy simple physics Mike and no matter how much you which it to be so it never will be ! Open top guns will never be able to stand the amount of thrust pressure as efficiently as closed frame guns !

Smokerr · Thursday at 5:58 PM

You keep trying to defy simple physics Mike and no matter how much you which it to be so it never will be ! Open top guns will never be able to stand the amount of thrust pressure as efficiently as closed frame guns !

I for sure am not a physicist though I believe we are talking in the realm of mechanical engineering and physics is only part of what goes on.

Now, what you need to do is offer up a design of equal materials and weights and see what is an is not possible.

The Closed frame design allows a sing out cylinder which in turn makes it ease of load and unload.

While I did not see it at the time, 45D is correct in that the Open Top is a frame, its just not a frame in the way you mean it.

Now, weight for weight which is more solid ? You put heavy charges in a top strap and you have to beef up the top and the bottom. Today you can get exotic materials and reduce the weight for both. But that is where physics does come in, recoil get worse and worse the more the weight goes down (with exotic materials) a 44 Walker Bulldog with 850 fps bullet has a nasty kick.

No matter how high you load it, 47 Walker is a nice shooting gun because it weighs so much.

No one is going to design an open top gun as the type of function for load and unload has changed and favors the top strap.

SA guns use a loading and eject port. That is simpler than taking your frame apart. Designs all are based on that and swing open cylinders.

Hard telling how hard you can push and open top, we know you can go into the pressures 45D has and fine. You may be able to go into full on 45 LC loads and push a 44 magnum level.

To do that you would have to know what the metallurgy at the mfg was and being used and what pressures it can withstand. Production wise it makes sense to just mfg with your highest SA gun. But we can't know that and none of us are setup to test those limits (nor want to).

That does not mean it could not.

45D · Thursday at 7:08 PM

M. De Land said:
You keep trying to defy simple physics Mike and no matter how much you which it to be so it never will be ! Open top guns will never be able to stand the amount of thrust pressure as efficiently as closed frame guns !

Ha ha sir, you are hilarious!!! I DON'T "defy" physics sir, you just don't understand it!! I've been doing the "impossible" ( according to you) for over a couple of years!!!! You can believe whatever you want but the PROOF is in the testing, not sitting behind a keyboard spouting what you THINK should be!!! You still have no clue apparently! Smokerr obviously understands it better than you (thanks Smokerr!!)!!! I've stated many times that my TOP STRAP Pietta made SAA (same dimensions as the Colt SAA) copy can't handle the ammo that I regularly shoot in my Dragoons and '60 Armys !!! WHY THE HECK IS THAT ?!!!!!! IT'S A TOP STRAP FRAME M. DE LAND? YOUR PHYSICS IS LACKING!!!
It's rather "telling" when some will tell you you can't do what you've been doing . . .

Mike

45D · Thursday at 7:29 PM

Everyone please understand, just because a SA revolver has a TOP STRAP, doesn't mean it can safely shoot 454 Casull ammo!!! It most certainly CANNOT!!! Some on this forum seem to think that the TOP STRAP is THE definitive answer to pressures one may introduce to a particular setup. It is in fact not true!! The TOP STRAP design has been universally adapted because of the ease of production and cost effectiveness, not because of ability!! The ONLY way a SA revolver can handle any of the modern "TOP Tier" ammo is because of materials used and an INCREASE in the thickness and width of the TOP STRAP!!!
That said, I have proven many times that a correctly setup open-top platform can easily surpass MANY "top strap" revolvers and the testing goes on . . .

Mike

Smokerr · Thursday at 9:03 PM

The first time I encountered an overhung crank system (ie, the connecting rods and pistons outside of the end bearing I was stunned. IR made it work for as many years as they made compressors the T-30 type (60 some years?).

They made a design choice, few if any other mfgs did. It worked well. Easy access if you needed to work on the Con Rods or Pistons.

45D has provided real world tests to back up his statements. Everything he has stated has proven to be reality even if I had a hard time getting it.

Now what an engineer would work out today if he was given the project to compare the two designs? None of us can say.

We do know the Open Top will take a conversion cylinder with some hot loads and a top strap will not.

We also know a comparable S&W 500 comes in at 5 lbs. That is with the latest in Materials and design. I saw one guy refuse to shoot his friends 4 inch.

The limit is recoil tolerance not what style support system is there.

And the aspect of an SA Top Strap that does not have a swing out cylinder vs top strap that does. A design and build on the Open Top design and its weight with modern materials would be a fun thing to see.

In a bit of stupidity I got to proof test the 47 Walker with a double charge of Unique. The 47 Walker did just fine.

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