Paper patch roundball in a civil war musket?

L & R
the hawken shop
Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
jrweis1997

jrweis1997

40 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Dec 1, 2023
Messages
223
Reaction score
378
Location
PA
I have an 1861 springfield that I really enjoy shooting but it does get kind of boring shooting alone after a while id say. There are a bunch of shoots by me in western PA that I would like to shoot at that are roundball only which puts me in a bit of a bind with my 1861. Has anyone ever fired roundball paper cartridges out of a civil war musket? I had some .570 balls I tested it with that were basically impossible to get down the bore with paper around them. Reading about the 1842 rifles it looks like they shot .662 balls out of a .69 cal bore so I was thinking maybe I should try a .550 ball. Just curious if anyone here has given this a try I think ill pick up a box of balls and test out and if it goes well ill have to get myself a mold.
 
Why not use cloth patches? My '61 shoots great with a. 570" ball and ticking patch. Or is this a speed competition where you need to use cartridges?
 
jrweis1997 said:
I have an 1861 springfield that I really enjoy shooting but it does get kind of boring shooting alone after a while id say. There are a bunch of shoots by me in western PA that I would like to shoot at that are roundball only which puts me in a bit of a bind with my 1861. Has anyone ever fired roundball paper cartridges out of a civil war musket? I had some .570 balls I tested it with that were basically impossible to get down the bore with paper around them. Reading about the 1842 rifles it looks like they shot .662 balls out of a .69 cal bore so I was thinking maybe I should try a .550 ball. Just curious if anyone here has given this a try I think ill pick up a box of balls and test out and if it goes well ill have to get myself a mold.
Click to expand...
Hook up with the N-SSA if you want to shoot competition with a team.
 
The round ball paper cartridge was used with smooth bore muskets, the paper held the ball in place on the powder and took up some of the excess windage between the ball and barrel. It didn’t impart spin to the ball since there was no rifling.

IIRC, the 1841 Mississippi rifle was loaded with separate cloth patch and ball.
 
jrweis1997 said:
I have an 1861 springfield that I really enjoy shooting but it does get kind of boring shooting alone after a while id say. There are a bunch of shoots by me in western PA that I would like to shoot at that are roundball only which puts me in a bit of a bind with my 1861. Has anyone ever fired roundball paper cartridges out of a civil war musket? I had some .570 balls I tested it with that were basically impossible to get down the bore with paper around them. Reading about the 1842 rifles it looks like they shot .662 balls out of a .69 cal bore so I was thinking maybe I should try a .550 ball. Just curious if anyone here has given this a try I think ill pick up a box of balls and test out and if it goes well ill have to get myself a mold.
Click to expand...
Like others said, shoot patched round balls. Lots of NSSA shooters do. Try lubed pillowing ticking patches.
 
rmark said:
I think some of the later 1842 Springfields were rifled but used a .69 minie bullet.
Click to expand...
The lands are dang near 3/8" wide and grooves are shallow. A round ball can tend to ride on those lands about like it was in a poorly machined smooth bore so some inventive loading techniques may be called for. At one point I tried hard cast and they actually shot better than what had been tried with soft lead.
 
nkbj said:
The lands are dang near 3/8" wide and grooves are shallow. A round ball can tend to ride on those lands about like it was in a poorly machined smooth bore so some inventive loading techniques may be called for. At one point I tried hard cast and they actually shot better than what had been tried with soft lead.
Click to expand...
Yeah 14,000+ were brought back to the arsenal and rifled. They actually manufactured them with thick barrels purposely knowing they’d be rifled later. Murphy's muskets has a good video shooting his with the minie ball and a paper cartridge round ball(smoothbore ammo). They seemed similarly accurate at 100 yards.

 
nkbj said:
The lands are dang near 3/8" wide and grooves are shallow. A round ball can tend to ride on those lands about like it was in a poorly machined smooth bore so some inventive loading techniques may be called for. At one point I tried hard cast and they actually shot better than what had been tried with soft lead.
Click to expand...
That last reply was meant for rmark
 
HamptonBogs45 said:
Yeah 14,000+ were brought back to the arsenal and rifled. They actually manufactured them with thick barrels purposely knowing they’d be rifled later. Murphy's muskets has a good video shooting his with the minie ball and a paper cartridge round ball(smoothbore ammo). They seemed similarly accurate at 100 yards.

Click to expand...

this is actually the video that inspired my question!
 
The N-SSA doesn't use round balls in rifled gun competitions, only in smoothbore, revolvers and sometimes in breech loading carbines where the ball is in a brass or plastic container (cartridge). Smoothbore pistols and muskets can only use roundballs and patching material is prohibited in all matches (includes loading paper cartridges).

You can successfully shoot round balls from a 61 but the shallow rifling will make it sensitive to ball and patch size.
 
HamptonBogs45 said:
I would ask some NSSA guys why size ball and thickness patch they you and play around to see what yours likes.
Click to expand...
In the N-SSA, nobody shoots patch round ball. In most rifled long guns, they use some form of minie or conical. Round ball is used in smoothbore and SOME rifled arms that use cartridges ie, Burnside, BUT they are NOT patched.
 
dave951 said:
In the N-SSA, nobody shoots patch round ball. In most rifled long guns, they use some form of minie or conical. Round ball is used in smoothbore and SOME rifled arms that use cartridges ie, Burnside, BUT they are NOT patched.
Click to expand...
My mistake. The person in the video said people shoot matches with tight patched round balls. I figured the matches being NSSA. You don’t hear about many others being shot with civil war muskets.
 
hawkeye2 said:
The N-SSA doesn't use round balls in rifled gun competitions, only in smoothbore, revolvers and sometimes in breech loading carbines where the ball is in a brass or plastic container (cartridge). Smoothbore pistols and muskets can only use roundballs and patching material is prohibited in all matches (includes loading paper cartridges).

You can successfully shoot round balls from a 61 but the shallow rifling will make it sensitive to ball and patch size.
Click to expand...
My mistake. The person in the video said people shoot matches with tight patched round balls. I figured the matches being NSSA. You don’t hear about many others being shot with civil war muskets.
 
No problem, my post was for the entire group and to try to clarify what the N-SSA actually does. First, speed is very important though accuracy is needed too and a patched ball can't be loaded (by most) as fast as a mini or naked ball. Second is the danger of fire. Virginia is very dry beginning in July and lasting through September and the chances of an out of control grass fire are real. Wads are allowed in revolver competition and the ball in smoothbore musket matches can be wrapped in aluminum foil which is not considered a patch.

Edit 11-27-24
I should add that nothing is allowed down the barrel except for powder (real black) and a one piece projectile except in revolver matches where wads are allowed.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Juniata
WANTED .662 Rounndball Mould
Replies
0
Views
83
Juniata
Juniata
SDSmlf
A Tale of Two 1861 Enfield Musketoons
Replies
12
Views
764
Rudyard
R
C
Did military blunderbusses use buckshot paper cartridges?
Replies
12
Views
664
springfield art
S
wiscoaster
NGD - 1861 Rifle Musket (but what exactly is it?)
Replies
19
Views
2K
Muley Gil
M
kh54
Mississippi Rifle questions
Replies
4
Views
716
gemmer
G

Latest posts

Back
Top