Ottoman Guns

Shop deals on ebay
L & R
the hawken shop
Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hi Rudyard

OK. That's one of the most common miquelet locks in the Region. Generally referred to as a Balkan lock. They were used on all kinds of guns. Very well built and reliable. And yes, the Albanians and Greeks were especially fond of using this lock. OK, you mentioned about
3 1/4" long. I look through my lock parts tomorrow and see what I have.
 
Dear Rick here is the desired pic of lock complete with my gray hair ! very like the Revel plastic kits .I hoped ide get just memory lane stuff was one I had as .Well Ime still a Boy just 70 years boy later .
Regards Rudyard







1731807910698.png

rickystl said:
Hi Rudyard

OK. That's one of the most common miquelet locks in the Region. Generally referred to as a Balkan lock. They were used on all kinds of guns. Very well built and reliable. And yes, the Albanians and Greeks were especially fond of using this lock. OK, you mentioned about
3 1/4" long. I look through my lock parts tomorrow and see what I have.
Click to expand...
Dear Rick that,s good to know have a similar lock but used it. Currently knocking up a Persian put to cap lock with their drum cum bar lock, per Elgood page 126 Kuwait collection only not so flash .The Major Corry haul had many barrels that had been side plug converted . Its like they confiscated the guns smashed the stocks perhaps to keep their fires going ? then tossed the barrels in a pile for scrap certainly not much care involved But all hail the Galloping Major he's become like a patron saint to such as we .His haul included much worn Werdles & Double rifles or 577 or so with rude sights ,the locks bareing V Gulicers a Liege plus Persian Snow lions . And well worn Double smooth bores marked Swinburne &' Scinde Irregular Horse' I only had the locks & mounts but the false breech I got to mate the barrels of a Jacobs Infantry rifle it was well pitted & the barrel floating but & the bores where good the ladder sight gone probably robbed by Weller & Dufty staff as perks I suspect' But I fitted a spare long Lee and that was as far as the buyer wanted How he got on I don't know .I only shot one of the separated barrels with a rudely stocked match lock in Adelaide only recently I used the lock on a huge wall gun style musket definatly a forked rest affair in all its intended Elizabethan splendor. Rudyard .
 
Rudyard: Thanks for the photo. The lock in your photo above does not look like it has a broken mainspring (?)

Also, note in the photo I posted, the mainspring's longer arm has a slight more upward curve to it. The mainspring in your photo the longer arm is a bit more straight. I've seen it both ways. I guess it depends on which original shop they were built in.

Which style of mainspring do you need ?
 
I enlarged your photo. It looks like possibly the tip of the tail of the upper arm, where the cock meets the mainspring, may have broken off ?
Is that correct ?
 
rickystl said:
I enlarged your photo. It looks like possibly the tip of the tail of the upper arm, where the cock meets the mainspring, may have broken off ?
Is that correct ?
Click to expand...
No the spring cracked near the Pan I got it welded but its lost its' Umph ' Come to that so have I But still warrants finally finishing it ' that fore stock is three pieces joined & the rod hole go'se right through wood no scraping the barrel Curly' Sycamore' Saved from the fate of Derbyshire Fence posts being chain sawn .They couldn't
SEE the figure muzzle end is horn I started it nye 60 years ago ! Bore s Damascus bit rough still used it. Regards Rudyard
 
Rudyard said:
No the spring cracked near the Pan I got it welded but its lost its' Umph ' Come to that so have I But still warrants finally finishing it ' that fore stock is three pieces joined & the rod hole go'se right through wood no scraping the barrel Curly' Sycamore' Saved from the fate of Derbyshire Fence posts being chain sawn .They couldn't
SEE the figure muzzle end is horn I started it nye 60 years ago ! Bore s Damascus bit rough still used it. Regards Rudyard
Click to expand...
OK. Couldn't see that. Does the mainspring look more like the one in the photo you posted ? (Which may be the exact lock you are talking about ?) Or does it look more like the one in the photo that I posted ?

Sometimes welding on the mainspring will work. Other times it doesn't. The spring is still too weak.

Rick
 
Last edited:
cyten said:
Cześć i witaj Vova! I believe this a pretty early Ottoman Miquelet, due to the trigger/triggerguard and how the lock is not of the later standardized form. It is similar to these 17th century examples captured in Austro-Hungary in the 1680's-1690's that clearly took more inspiration from the Spanish locks they were based on.
View attachment 362474View attachment 362481

Green dyed bone was a popular decoration on these guns. Green being a sacred color in Islam, as mentioned by @PhDBrewer
View attachment 362492
Click to expand...
Thank you masters of craft/history for the interesting point outs! :)
I've checked all pages here before wrote the post (many amazing pieces!). As Ricky and Cyten said, the shape of lock and divided cock (with a brass "neck" part) is kinda unusual so rather asked.
Thanks for the picture of rifle you've sent! It's also very similar due silver plating and brass divided neck of cock.
About the green inlay, tried to cut it a bit from the bottom part by scalpel and it's green even in core and bone structure. Could be dyed by chemicals which are able to get deep in structure of the thin plates. Gonna try make the recipe with verdigris.

Best regards!
Vova
 
Vova said:
Thank you masters of craft/history for the interesting point outs! :)
I've checked all pages here before wrote the post (many amazing pieces!). As Ricky and Cyten said, the shape of lock and divided **** (with a brass "neck" part) is kinda unusual so rather asked.
Thanks for the picture of rifle you've sent! It's also very similar due silver plating and brass divided neck of ****.
About the green inlay, tried to cut it a bit from the bottom part by scalpel and it's green even in core and bone structure. Could be dyed by chemicals which are able to get deep in structure of the thin plates. Gonna try make the recipe with verdigris.

Best regards!
Vova
Click to expand...
Thank you for provide an update and more information on the green material. Very interesting mystery!
 
Actually, multiple boxes. LOL I found one lock very similar to yours. But it too, had a broken mainspring.

But here is an Ottoman/Turkish lock that's complete. The mainspring is still super strong like most. And the full length of the upper arm is right at 3 1/4 inches, like yours. The length of the short arm is 1 1/4 inches. The gap, in the middle, at it's widest point, between the two arms, is 7/16 inch.

So measure the length of your short arm and the space between both arms of your lock.

Hopefully, we will get your gun working again.
 
Last edited:
Here is an interesting Matchlock with a Belgian barrel that was done to emulate the beautiful, chiseled barrels on Omani guns.

1732732760945.png
1732732845215.png
1732732729804.png
1732732815606.png



This Kariophili/Rasak came up for auction recently, but went over my budget unfortunately. Very unique in that it is fitted with a Bulgarian Boyliya lock.
bonh.jpeg
bonh2.jpeg

My friend/lock maker recently built his first complete gun, a Boyliya
1732733242763.png
1732733267677.png
1732733307159.png
1732733351292.png
 
Last edited:
Rudyard said:
Dear Rick It seems very similar but I doubt the lock would fit & would be a shame to spoil an original lock I might have to smith one out. I like the FISH on the bridle .
Regards Rudyard
Click to expand...
Hi Rudyard

I was suggesting the possibility of using just the mainspring. I have other locks like this that are "parts" locks that I can scavenge from.
Since your lock is already mounted on a working gun, it would be worth fixing. If you don't have the facilities there in NZ, here is an easy way to replace the mainspring: You can send me your complete lock. There is probably a better than 50/50 chance that I have one that will fit. If I don't, I can send the lock to Jeff Miller and have him forge an exact duplicate. And then fit it to the lock. Then I'll ship the lock back to you in working order. Anyway, just an offer.

Rick
 
Cyten: Thanks for the photos !!!

1. The decoration on the stock of that matchlock looks more Ottoman to me Ottoman variations are considered rare today. And I see what you suggest with the Belgium proofed barrel. Good chance the engraving was on the barrel was done by the assembly gunsmith. Would be common. A very cool matchlock.
2. Yes, interesting that Kariophila/Rasak is mounted with a Bulgarian style lock. A good example showing the mix of cultures with these guns. Judging by the condition in the photos, it probably fetched a larger price. A nice one. My guess is this one being a Kariophila from the Greek areas. The Rasak guns from Southern Albania look identical, except the butt stocks seem to have a slight more upward curve. But that's the only way I've been able to differentiate the two.
3. Your friend did a wonderful job on the Boyliya build. Love the sling also. Great craftsmanship.

Rick
 
rickystl said:
Hi Rudyard

I was suggesting the possibility of using just the mainspring. I have other locks like this that are "parts" locks that I can scavenge from.
Since your lock is already mounted on a working gun, it would be worth fixing. If you don't have the facilities there in NZ, here is an easy way to replace the mainspring: You can send me your complete lock. There is probably a better than 50/50 chance that I have one that will fit. If I don't, I can send the lock to Jeff Miller and have him forge an exact duplicate. And then fit it to the lock. Then I'll ship the lock back to you in working order. Anyway, just an offer.

Rick
Click to expand...
Dear Rick. A very kind offer if these days sending anything remotley gun like gets into stupid anti gun customs ect but it is a lock might be ok I do have another not as good but earmarked to restore an original Shishoni stock I could smith out a spring but better if original. Cytens post just came in I get lost in all the terms but happy to try fathom them
.Regards to you both Rudyard
 
Rudyard said:
Dear Rick. A very kind offer if these days sending anything remotley gun like gets into stupid anti gun customs ect but it is a lock might be ok I do have another not as good but earmarked to restore an original Shishoni stock I could smith out a spring but better if original. Cytens post just came in I get lost in all the terms but happy to try fathom them
.Regards to you both Rudyard
Click to expand...
NZ customs said they are okay with locks for muzzleloaders/complete muzzleloaders, but you could always just call it a fancy cigarette lighter
 

Similar threads

E
19th Century Ottoman pistol?
Replies
3
Views
621
rickystl
R
Dave Wallis
Ottoman pistol markings
Replies
2
Views
517
rickystl
R
C
Need help Identifying this Blunderbuss and authenticity. Thanks
Replies
19
Views
2K
Rudyard
R
cyten
17th Century Ottoman Miquelet "Shishane"
Replies
4
Views
936
rickystl
R
E
Hello everyone!
2
Replies
20
Views
679
Tinpan Dan
Tinpan Dan

Latest posts

Back
Top