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Phil Coffins

Phil Coffins

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A recent antique pistol of civil war age came with a broken main spring. Using the 1095 spring stock sold by Brownell’s it was easy to make a new one. Gluing it to piece of metal allowed me to draw file the thickness down to match the broken one. The material is easy to saw and file to shape and after making the sharp bend in a vice the curve is bent by hand. Heat treat can be done with a couple of propane torch’s then quenched in warm oil. Polished it is heated slowly to an even blue before oiling. Apparently the broken one was made from a file but the teeth had not been removed. It broke exactly in the teeth!
IMG_0682 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0681 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0684 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
I agree with Rich on the use of 1095. It is a good high quality spring material but it can be a bit tricky to heat treat. I prefer to use either 1075 or 1084. They are a bit easier to heat treat and cost less for the material.
 
Phil Coffins said:
A recent antique pistol of civil war age came with a broken main spring. Using the 1095 spring stock sold by Brownell’s it was easy to make a new one. Gluing it to piece of metal allowed me to draw file the thickness down to match the broken one. The material is easy to saw and file to shape and after making the sharp bend in a vice the curve is bent by hand. Heat treat can be done with a couple of propane torch’s then quenched in warm oil. Polished it is heated slowly to an even blue before oiling. Apparently the broken one was made from a file but the teeth had not been removed. It broke exactly in the teeth!
IMG_0682 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0681 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0684 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
Click to expand...
If you are going to temper for a spring by color, you need to slowly bring the heat color to neutral gray then quench or just let it cool. Blue color is about 150° below the necessary temper range. Spring temper needs to be in the range of 42to 46 Rc. hardness. Especially with 1095. 1075/80 is a much better and easier steel to work with. If you have access to a lead thermometer and a lead melting pot, bring the hardened spring to 750°F in the lead, soak for a long moment or so, then remove and let cool.
 
LRB said:
If you are going to temper for a spring by color, you need to slowly bring the heat color to neutral gray then quench or just let it cool. Blue color is about 150° below the necessary temper range. Spring temper needs to be in the range of 42to 46 Rc. hardness. Especially with 1095. 1075/80 is a much better and easier steel to work with. If you have access to a lead thermometer and a lead melting pot, bring the hardened spring to 750°F in the lead, soak for a long moment or so, then remove and let cool.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your observation. Having used this material for dozens of springs of many sizes and forms I believe I’ll continue to us it expecting the same success.
 
Phil Coffins said:
Thank you for your observation. Having used this material for dozens of springs of many sizes and forms I believe I’ll continue to us it expecting the same success.
Click to expand...
Just giving the facts. You may do as you wish but those following this posting should do their own research on spring making. It is not voodoo or secret recipes, it is simply the use of positive results well proven and well established by metallurgical science. Most any high carbon steel will make a good spring when well hardened and tempered to a hardness range in the mid or low 40's Rockwell which is in the gray neutral color zone. Actually, some, not necessarily all, high carbon steels are at some risk for breakage in the blue temper color range. Look up "blue brittle" temper range for steels. Knife makers as well as those making springs should be aware of this.
 
Phil Coffins said:
A recent antique pistol of civil war age came with a broken main spring. Using the 1095 spring stock sold by Brownell’s it was easy to make a new one. Gluing it to piece of metal allowed me to draw file the thickness down to match the broken one. The material is easy to saw and file to shape and after making the sharp bend in a vice the curve is bent by hand. Heat treat can be done with a couple of propane torch’s then quenched in warm oil. Polished it is heated slowly to an even blue before oiling. Apparently the broken one was made from a file but the teeth had not been removed. It broke exactly in the teeth!
IMG_0682 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0681 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0684 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
Click to expand...

I try to avoid 1095 for springs, the temper has to be right around 800 or it will break just sitting in the lock.

I’ve been using 6150 knife billets, never broken a custom spring. Going to give 80CRV2 a shot
 
LRB said:
Just giving the facts. You may do as you wish but those following this posting should do their own research on spring making. It is not voodoo or secret recipes, it is simply the use of positive results well proven and well established by metallurgical science. Most any high carbon steel will make a good spring when well hardened and tempered to a hardness range in the mid or low 40's Rockwell which is in the gray neutral color zone. Actually, some, not necessarily all, high carbon steels are at some risk for breakage in the blue temper color range. Look up "blue brittle" temper range for steels. Knife makers as well as those making springs should be aware of this.
Click to expand...
Phil Coffins said:
The steel I have used is sold by Brownell’s for gunsmithing, from their book here’s the recommendation for drawing by color and temperature.
IMG_0686 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
Click to expand...
Phil Coffins said:
The steel I have used is sold by Brownell’s for gunsmithing, from their book here’s the recommendation for drawing by color and temperature.
IMG_0686 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
Click to expand...
The Brownell's company are great people, but the author of that book was not a metallurgist of any degree and that series of books , which I also have, are nothing more than a collection of suggestions and opinions mostly from amateur home self taught gun smiths whose advices vary greatly in accuracy and successful outcomes from great to OK, to poor, to disastrous. Steel color tables can be found in numerous sources on the net. Sometimes right enough, more often not so much. Never dead accurate because many people see colors different. Not a good method of heat treating ever when good results are critical. Useful only when there is no other practical way or the project is of little true importance. OH! and 750°F is the ideal temp if between it and 800°F if using the simple high carbon steels, however 01 steel will work well at 800°F and even a tad higher. Sometimes highly alloyed steel can differ.
 
Phil Coffins said:
Thank you for your observation. Having used this material for dozens of springs of many sizes and forms I believe I’ll continue to us it expecting the same success.
Click to expand...
I for one can't argue with success. nice work PC.
I also thank the other posters for the Information they provide. one can never have to much knowledge because at a certain age it tends to be lost.
 
The problem with using colors is just as LRB mentioned, everyone see’s colors differently. In the tempering process there are a few shades of blue from dark blue to almost a dull pale blue, some people call this blue peacock, to me this is a grey almost black color, especially after its oiled.

The only time colors really matter is if your using an open flame or tempering with a torch, I use an oven now, I avoid tempering with. Torches.
 
My only spring adventure was in annealing, hardening and retempering a lock spring. My tempering process was the one I've read many times, namely immersing the hardened spring in oil and then lighting the oil afire and leaving it to burn out. Spring broke immediately when I tried to install it in the lock. 🤣
 
In my early years of spring making, I've used O-1, 1095, 1075 and 1084 and for me 1075 and 1084 worked the best for me. I also tried Kit Ravenshear's method of heat treating and I found it gave me the most broken springs. I've used the "torch-it by eye" method and found that gave me a 75% to 90% success ratio when I use a lead bath to do the tempering. Your shop lighting will have an effect on what colors you see on the steel.
 
ZUG said:
In my early years of spring making, I've used O-1, 1095, 1075 and 1084 and for me 1075 and 1084 worked the best for me. I also tried Kit Ravenshear's method of heat treating and I found it gave me the most broken springs. I've used the "torch-it by eye" method and found that gave me a 75% to 90% success ratio when I use a lead bath to do the tempering. Your shop lighting will have an effect on what colors you see on the steel.
Click to expand...

John Bosch (RIP) was color blind, he would temper springs in the dark with a torch until they turned just a slight red color. It worked for him, he had a very large following.
 
OK- if he was color blind how did he see the color red?
 
ZUG said:
OK- if he was color blind how did he see the color red?
Click to expand...
Easy, because colour blindness doesn’t necessarily mean that you can’t see colours, it usually means that one confuses colours and if a colour blind person knows what the real colour of what he sees is then he has no problems.
Had a mate who was a telephone linesman and he was never caught out until just before retirement, so he was given an office job because legally he could no longer be a linesman
 

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