Ed Kollar Fullstock Flintlock Hawken

BigSkyRambler · Nov 28, 2024

I recently acquired a couple of rifles from the collection of the late Dr. Edward (Ed) Kollar of Taos, NM. One, I think, might of particular interest to this forum, as it MAY hold clues to a discussion about flintlock Hawken rifles on the American Longrifles forum in 2020. One post included this:
"There was another candidate for a flint Hawken presented in a Buckskin Report article back in October 1979 by Edward S. Kollar. Unfortunately, it was destroyed in a house fire before it could be examined by experts and is still a big question mark today."
The rifle in my possession has a 38.25" .50 barrel stamped GUN MAKER P. SANDERS MONTANA TERR. 82. Lock stamped P.L.S. inside. Dr. Kollar electropenciled information on buttplate indicating it was a copy of an early J&S Hawken ca. 1825. Is it conceivable that this rifle replicates the one examined by Dr. Kollar for the 79 Buckskin Report article? Expiring minds want to know.

stubshaft · Nov 28, 2024

How interesting.

Grenadier1758 · Nov 29, 2024

1825 is the year Jake and Sam began their partnership.

There is no way of knowing the configuration of the destroyed original rifle.

BigSkyRambler · Nov 29, 2024

Grenadier1758 said:
1825 is the year Jake and Sam began their partnership.

There is no way of knowing the configuration of the destroyed original rifle.

My rifle matches the original in almost every detail. It is undoubtedly based on the rifle examined in 1979.

Grenadier1758 · Nov 29, 2024

And the one examined in 1979 has a percussion lock. I do think your rifle is very nearly a bench copy as imagined in flint lock.

BigSkyRambler · Nov 29, 2024

Grenadier1758 said:
And the one examined in 1979 has a percussion lock. I do think your rifle is very nearly a bench copy as imagined in flint lock.

The article says lock was converted from flint to percussion. Reading is fundamental.

Grenadier1758 · Nov 29, 2024

@BigSkyRambler, I've just read the article as you made your posting. It is very compelling that the barrel was originally made as a flint lock with the touch hole plugged and a new flash channel for the drum drilled and tapped then brazed in place. The lock too was converted from flint to percussion. It did not mention that cut out for the drum was likely moved from an original position where the touch hole was located. Jake and Sam did convert flint locks to percussion for some of their early rifles. It is interesting that the stock has more of a Tennessee architecture with a grease hole in the stock which is not seen on other Hawken rifles. The description of the lock seems to make it contemporary with the rest of the rifle. They did not describe the stock as to whether it has the stock relieved for the stop of a flint hammer to stop at the lock plate.

I do stand by my statement that based on the original percussion rifle described in the article that your rifle is one based on the original as it might have been built as a flint lock based on the description in the article.

BigSkyRambler · Nov 29, 2024

The main point is that Dr. Kollar has made a compelling case for the original rifle being an early product of the J&S Hawken shop. Not proof positive, but compelling. The rifle in my possession is based on extrapolating back to an original flintlock configuration. Nobody really has a handle on what came out of the Hawken's shop in The Earlies.

waksupi · Nov 29, 2024

FYI, it was built by Phil "Blue Jacket" Sanders. Blue Jacket was very good at making fakes, so it is probably pretty much on the money.

rich pierce · Nov 29, 2024

It’s very interesting, for sure. I sure wish the original had survived the fire, or at least the barrel, so we could see the stamp.

There’s a fascination with discovering an early flintlock St. Louis Hawken rifle. I guess people love the elusive and unattainable. I built a flintlock Hawken rifle for a customer in 1981. It was just a “semi-educated guess” gun based on what we thought we knew at the time. To me, the prettiest Hawken rifles are the early halfstock J&S Hawken rifles in percussion.

BigSkyRambler · Nov 29, 2024

rich pierce said:
It’s very interesting, for sure. I sure wish the original had survived the fire, or at least the barrel, so we could see the stamp.

There’s a fascination with discovering an early flintlock St. Louis Hawken rifle. I guess people love the elusive and unattainable. I built a flintlock Hawken rifle for a customer in 1981. It was just a “semi-educated guess” gun based on what we thought we knew at the time. To me, the prettiest Hawken rifles are the early halfstock J&S Hawken rifles in percussion.

All well made muzzleloaders are pretty in some capacity. I love them all.

BigSkyRambler · Nov 30, 2024

Another connection to the original rifle.

Wncman · Dec 1, 2024

I am in the process of gathering parts.
It will be a Full Stock Hawken Flintlock.
Because that’s what I want.

Ed Kollar Fullstock Flintlock Hawken

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