Buck vs Doe

In NJ they suspended deer hunting a couple times for several years. Once around 1860 and again around 1900. They imported deer in the early 1900s to build back the herd. Think this may have from war or hide hunting.

We're up to a tall squaw's butt with deer here, and antlerless tags are plentiful. One year you could get 28 tags down in the Bitterroot. I shot a doe opening day, just because the weather was nice, and she was close to the meat pole. I have a wall full of antlers from the past 55+ years I haven't ate yet, so I could see no reason to save any more.

I'm fortunate enough to live in Middle TN. Deer season starts the last Saturday in September and runs through to the 1st Sunday in January. The limit in Middle TN is 2 Bucks per year, but you can take up to three does PER DAY for the entire season. Of course, there are Archery, Archery/Muzzleloader and Archery/Muzzleloader/Gun seasons, so you have to abide by the method of take as the season wears on, but we have way too many deerses. TWRA doesn't issue "tags" anymore, so all you have to do is check in your harvest with their on-line app and you get a "check-in number." No inspection stations or log books anymore.

Out of 98 days, you can take 294 does per year, if you're so inclined, really lucky, and have the energy. If you qualify for the young hunter weekends, you could bag an additional 12.

I've only taken 3 does in a day once. Once was enough! I thought I was gonna die by the time I had the last one field dressed and in the truck.

I have never taken a doe, even as a kid. Growing up in CNY it was bucks only unless you had the old "doe permit." Back then that meant one between I think four or five of you.

Later while stationed and living in Maine it was bucks only, one deer per season.

Living in Virginia I still try to get my head around the fact that I can take up to four deer a season. I am only interested in a buck, with a self-imposed antler restriction of six-point or better. But I'm 64, only hunt them with a muzzleloader, and have reached the point where I just enjoy being able to hunt and be outside. I actually enjoy watching the does and spikes walk past. I still get the same feeling I did as a 16-year-old just learning, maybe more so.

flatcreek said:

I'm 76 this month and when I grew up in NJ we could only shoot bucks. As I got older there were option like a doe day to shoot does. I was taught that when you shot a doe you killed 2 deer for next year, witch there is probably some truth to. Wonder what other think about this and in colonial time what did they think or do. Imagine when hungry they did what they needed. To be clear I have shot doe, not many.

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When I was a boy there was no doe season in Maryland. Now doe are fair game. What changed was not just numbers of doe, but ability to reproduce. Fifty years ago it was uncommon for doe to have twins, and very rare for them to have triplets. Now it's uncommon for them to have triplets, which means the herd is getting very large. This is due to safe areas and abundant fodder.

With such numbers, and with them crowding into "non hunt" areas they are becoming quite destructive, not just to the manicured gardens of the wealthy, but also to the parklands where they are expected to reside. Further, they are running their own food supply low, so that instead of having healthy, robust immune systems, they are compromised because they are on "short rations". Thin the herd, and this is self corrected, and the best way for that is by hunting.

As far as the colonials or the natives, meat is meat. Deer were quite elusive even before European contact with North America because, humans were one of several apex predators after deer. In fact the Can-Tuc-Kee area of the Ohio Valley was actually a massive game preserve that numerous Native American Nations had agreed not to settle within, but allow all the nations to conduct hunting parties, but not make war, to facilitate all having some venison and leather every year.

LD

Flint1 said:

You're exactly right. What I was referencing was strictly for eating purposes, but still you're exactly right about the taking of so many deer and the reason for doing so. I don't know if that was why Virginia had a conservation law that far back or not, but possibly so. Virginia was settled much earlier than SC. The English settlers who came to stay didn't arrive in the current Charleston area til 1670. I've read about the "hide trade" in SC during the early 1700s, may have stated as late as the late 1600s, where wagons full of deer hides made their way from the current upstate to Charles Towne to be shipped to England. BTW, I see you're in Heath Springs. Did you graduate from Andrew Jackson? I did in 1976 and my wife in 1980. We're both originally from Kershaw, but she passed away in January 2021 and is buried in Kershaw. I still live in Mt. Pleasant across the river from Charleston, where we moved in 1987 after I resigned from the Army. Most of her remaining family and mine are still in the Camden-Kershaw-Heath Springs and Lancaster area.

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I did not go to AJ but some of my children and grandchildren go there. I live up on Flat Rock Road in Congressman Richards old home.

I'm in CA. Our deer biologists can make recommendations but those can all be swept aside by politicians (and often are). I heard once that our buck/doe ratios are estimated to be around 1:15. But we can only shoot bucks, forkie or better, in most zones. I pass on dozens of does every year, though I'd happily take one if it were legal. Many years ago, CDFW asked to implement doe hunts in some zones but the counties blocked it. CDFW quit asking as it's generally believed to be rather pointless to try anymore -- too many antis and uninformed people would cry foul and shut it down.

We have different subspecies here and very different dynamics. In my local zone, about 7000 tags are issued for a sustainable harvest of only about 500 deer (bucks, forkies or bigger). They have to set the season before the rut because there are that many hunters trying to kill too few deer. So the rifle season opens up just after they hard-horn around late Sept and ends around late Oct-early Nov. The deer have plenty of predators, including us hunters. So there is simply no need to kill any like there is in whitetail country.

There are a few either-sex tags that you can get in the lottery draws for specific zones. The season for those is limited and they're almost always limited-range weapons and/or youth hunts. I've been fortunate enough to draw them many times. But the only shots I've gotten on those hunts have been at bucks -- go figure.

As somebody else pointed out, colonists shot deer primarily for the international market for buckskins, used to make the popular buckskin leggings of the day. The meat was a byproduct of what was really a market for hides. I had read that one buckskin (larger than a doe skin) was worth about 1 Spanish Peso. And that's how we Americans started calling a dollar a "buck."

In ND the deer population ebbs and flows mostly due to natural conditions like harsh winters and viruses. There was a time there were so many deer you could get as many doe tags as you wanted and we were constantly striking deer with our vehicles and I even had them run into the side of vehicles on multiple occasions! but this year in my area the population is low, I think there is a virus affecting them. Some winters I’d find dead deer all over the fields from illness or starvation. The last few years we’ve been getting lots more pressure from out of state hunters who out number the in state hunters quite a bit for everything but rifle deer. For bow season there’s probably 20 out of state hunters for everything local and during waterfowl probably 50 to 1 if not 100 to 1, it’s nuts. Some of us land owners have had to get rid of home telephone numbers and not list them anywhere because you get constant calls from out of state hunters to get permission, it’s a little crazy. My wife will literally text me while hunting not to shoot a buck lol, she much prefers doe meat. This year so far I’ve seen 4 bucks to every doe but that’s mainly due to the rut. Males sure get careless when they are chasing tail lol.

Texcl2 said:

In ND the deer population ebbs and flows mostly due to natural conditions like harsh winters and viruses. There was a time there were so many deer you could get as many doe tags as you wanted and we were constantly striking deer with our vehicles and I even had them run into the side of vehicles on multiple occasions! but this year in my area the population is low, I think there is a virus affecting them. Some winters I’d find dead deer all over the fields from illness or starvation. The last few years we’ve been getting lots more pressure from out of state hunters who out number the in state hunters quite a bit for everything but rifle deer. For bow season there’s probably 20 out of state hunters for everything local and during waterfowl probably 50 to 1 if not 100 to 1, it’s nuts. Some of us land owners have had to get rid of home telephone numbers and not list them anywhere because you get constant calls from out of state hunters to get permission, it’s a little crazy. My wife will literally text me while hunting not to shoot a buck lol, she much prefers doe meat. This year so far I’ve seen 4 bucks to every doe but that’s mainly due to the rut. Males sure get careless when they are chasing tail lol.

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They call... how do these people get the number... that's kinda lazy and rude no tell them all no.

Id. Want to see them.

I'd ask a few questions.. name. I'd expect to hear your full name. Not some Jeff and silent Bob..

Where you from is not around here.. your job... etc..

In the end.. I'd tell you where to hunt and to stay there.. then maybe next year you have more permission.

Ring the bell.. nock on the door.

Wave to them out there but I don't run up to them.. if they keep going and ignore me it's going to be no so no.

I've had luck in other states.

Texcl2 said:

In ND the deer population ebbs and flows mostly due to natural conditions like harsh winters and viruses. There was a time there were so many deer you could get as many doe tags as you wanted and we were constantly striking deer with our vehicles and I even had them run into the side of vehicles on multiple occasions! but this year in my area the population is low, I think there is a virus affecting them. Some winters I’d find dead deer all over the fields from illness or starvation. The last few years we’ve been getting lots more pressure from out of state hunters who out number the in state hunters quite a bit for everything but rifle deer. For bow season there’s probably 20 out of state hunters for everything local and during waterfowl probably 50 to 1 if not 100 to 1, it’s nuts. Some of us land owners have had to get rid of home telephone numbers and not list them anywhere because you get constant calls from out of state hunters to get permission, it’s a little crazy. My wife will literally text me while hunting not to shoot a buck lol, she much prefers doe meat. This year so far I’ve seen 4 bucks to every doe but that’s mainly due to the rut. Males sure get careless when they are chasing tail lol.

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PM sent about getting permission to hunt next year…

lol, that’s about the amount of it. I help folks out when I can. It’s pretty easy to get peoples numbers online apparently. I like most of the guys I run into. It’s a sensitive subject that I wish I hadn’t brought up lol. I don’t want to side track this thread. Sorry guys!

Texcl2 said:

lol, that’s about the amount of it. I help folks out when I can. It’s pretty easy to get peoples numbers online apparently. I like most of the guys I run into. It’s a sensitive subject that I wish I hadn’t brought up lol. I don’t want to side track this thread. Sorry guys!

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Kinda on topic..

To be asking your asking for doe..

people who want to hunt the whole farm for a buck I mean.. you getting told no unless you're family.

It's more or. Less hoping for a doe.. unless they say shoot Any deer buck to. That's cool..

My input is, and after living in 9 different states, it simply depends on each location. Contrary to what even some of my neighbors contend, I am not seeing the number of doe deer as I have been seeing in the past. Mind you that I hunt a lot. I'm also in the woods a lot scouting, cutting firewood, etc. I cover many miles over a span of 6 months in the woods.

If we are getting overrun like some say, I'm not seeing them, their tracks, nor is my trail cams getting images of them. They are here, but not like in the past. This happened right after the F&G allowed doe deer to be shot with a firearm a couple of years ago. I now see more smaller bucks than doe.

Thus my rational of, it simply depends on each location.

Between doe and one buck, I'm allowed to kill 4 deer a year in this area. Only one can be shot with a firearm. However, I mostly rely on my crossbow for the others.

It's different everywhere. Even different from one part of a state to another.

Like public land where I was.. allot of deer until opening day.

I watched over 40 doe pass my stand the first hour. Just in an hour. That's how many deer were dumping of public..

And everyone sitting pritty there.
.. watches all these doe on private waiting for a buck too come out..

City hunters don't Really get the permission to hunt as much as they should. Bad reputations.

Then with all those deer. All the doe..

A good amount of guys end up at a trophy ranch for a buck too brag about? I noticed that also.

The taxidermist knows lol. some people can't be fooled.

flatcreek said:

I'm 76 this month and when I grew up in NJ we could only shoot bucks. As I got older there were option like a doe day to shoot does. I was taught that when you shot a doe you killed 2 deer for next year, witch there is probably some truth to. Wonder what other think about this and in colonial time what did they think or do. Imagine when hungry they did what they needed. To be clear I have shot doe, not many.

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"I was taught that when you shot a doe, you killed 2 deer for next year, witch there is probably some truth to."

With that rational, need to be shooting does.

Do you think a buck only breeds one doe and stops?

If you shoot a buck how many does are walking around unbred?

2 deer.. one doe is worth 4 or more I think.

If your asking. Buck yea if there is 1 buck he's going to breed everything. Wouldn't you..

If there's more buck than doe.. it's a better rut..

The deer inbreed to.

A buck if lives long could be breeding it's kids. More common for the buck to do it..

Less common for a mother to breed with son.

Not so common brother sister.

I'll give it to Maine..

For health.. I've never heard of a sick deer anything from Maine.

During any given year, when does come into heat, they mate. If a few of them are not served, they come into heat a second time. So, generally, in June, the fawns are born. Depending on lots of factors one county or several become over populated. Not in one year but eventually. When that occurs, more liberal limits are granted, and that according to the state's biologist. I don't feel bad about killing does during those times. It is legal and necessary. One season in VA, there was no limit on does. If a hunter wanted more than his license allowed, he could buy doe tags at $12 a piece. I hunted everyday with my Chambers Early Lancaster and killed 7 deer, only two of which were bucks. Not one scrap of meat went to waste. Some areas had stations where a hunter could donate deer to "Hunters for the Hungry. That program, my own freezer and those of friends accounted for those 7. Sounds greedy, but I likened it to the hunters of old who provided needed meat to a pioneer community or Indian village. Not to involve religion, but deer and wild animals exist because the Creator put them here to feed humans. Plus it helped the health of the herds. Not to talk politics, but the same thing can be said for the natural existence of coal and oil. It is there for us. Greenies won't agree but that's my belief and I shall now shut up before I get myself in trouble with our moderators