New Ruger Old Army – Need help dialing in

I found this 1982 ROA LNIB that appeared to never have been fired. I took it out today to give it a try. I did 6 shots to condition the barrel then shot 25y groups using Schuetzen FFFG, Rem #11’s and Speer .457 balls. During conditioning I noticed it was shooting high so I cranked the sight all the way down.

First group, 30gr with lubed wad and Crisco: 3.15”, 2.56” high.

2nd, 35gr with lubed wad and Cirsco: 3.50”, 3.5” high

Winter sun was low on the horizon and it was getting hard to see the sights so I got a sheet of cardboard to shade the sights for the next group.

35gr, no wad, Crisco. 2.20”, but 4.3” high!

I tried that last load again but this time offhand, and it was 7” high!

Am I doing something wrong with my loads or is the gun maybe messed up? Maybe I need a taller front sight?

BTW: The windage was perfect throughout.

Thanks for the help!

My first alert is to check the bolt. Its going down or you would not turn the cylinder, but its common they pop back up and you will get drag marks (and spinning the cylinder in half cock makes that worse!)

45D explained how to fix that but it takes a disassembly, tap a pin out and grind down (good news ) to get it to stay released until the Bolt should pop back up.

As for the all over the map? Fouling keep building unless you brush it out. Not a full clean but a nylon brush will clean a lot of it.

Crisco is going to build goop up in the barrel with the powder fouling. I don't use it. a .457 ball will give you a solid lead seal (you can see it by putting a ball in a chamber then driving it back out by pulled the Nipple and a punch.

Felt wads may help fouling, but I prefer the brush. If I want to clean after 4 o 6 chambers, I used Carbon Killer 2000 with patches and the brush.

Smokeless powder needs to be cleaned after 50 shots (100 maybe) but black powder really fouls a barrel.

I do a good clean with the barrel slanted down and a pan of soapy water with the nylon brush getting soapy water, running it UP the barrel, then a hot rinse of down the barrel.

You can hit it with a dryer, patch it and then a lubed patch or barrislto to get the water out and not get flash rust.

There may be nothing wrong with your loads as they are faily common for that pistol. Fowling does affect accuracy, wiping the bore between shots is not a bad idea if you are shooting for groups. More than likely what has a bigger affect on groups with a SA Revolver is trigger pull and how the revolver is gripped. If the trigger pull is over 3 lbs, you are going to have a tough time with groups. If the trigger has creep, you are going to have a tough time grouping. Check these things before going further. Next, do some research about how to grip the SA Revolver for accuracy, you should find some good info out there. Keep the grips clean, it's very easy to get lube on the grips while loading and shooting. Keep a rag or towel handy to wipe the grips between loads. Are you using a one handed or two handed grip. SA Revolvers are meant to shoot one handed and you may find you can get a more consistant grip using one hand. SA Revolvers I think are the toughest pistols to shoot for accuracy but once you find the right combo they are fun and a pleasure to shoot. Good luck, I hope this helps.

Jim

Sounds like you guys are saying a 2.2" group at 25y is not very good?

Seems to me the accuracy is fine, just the POI is way off.

No, a 2.2 inch group is good. Frankly the rest are not bad either.

The shifting POI is odd. Some of it loads but 7 inches?

They do tend to shoot high so that itself is not an issue. Annoying as the sights should allow on at 25 yards.

Was that rested or free hand?

I had a similar problem with one of my ROA's as it continually shot higher than normal. I called Ruger and they sent me a higher front sight blade. The stainless Blackhawks and ROA front sight blade can be changed by driving out the crosspin and replacing the blade. I got the highest blade they had with the intention of filing it down if needed.

Worked like a charm.

Smokerr said:

No, a 2.2 inch group is good. Frankly the rest are not bad either.

The shifting POI is odd. Some of it loads but 7 inches?

They do tend to shoot high so that itself is not an issue. Annoying as the sights should allow on at 25 yards.

Was that rested or free hand?

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Based on these groups, the hotter the load, the higher POI, I expected the opposite. All measured groups were rested, I am not an Olympic champ so I do not test accuracy offhand!

Offhand gave me the 7" high group which I did not bother to measure group size, only location.

stubshaft said:

I had a similar problem with one of my ROA's as it continually shot higher than normal. I called Ruger and they sent me a higher front sight blade. The stainless Blackhawks and ROA front sight blade can be changed by driving out the crosspin and replacing the blade. I got the highest blade they had with the intention of filing it down if needed.

Worked like a charm.

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I just called, they said the do not have a taller front sight. I did mention the blackhawk to the young lady that answered the phone and checked with a "technician".

I'll have to make my own.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I just called, they said the do not have a taller front sight. I did mention the blackhawk to the young lady that answered the phone and checked with a "technician".

I'll have to make my own.

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Wow! That’s disappointing that they no longer want to send out a Blackhawk sight. I’m fairly sure they didn’t recently change the front sight design so that it no longer fits so I guess they’ve just decided they don’t care so much anymore…

I found this, not sure if it will fit but I'll probably roll the dice. They say it is .450" tall and if so it should do the trick. But it is out of stock, but I think the one at Numerich is the same.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004337483?pid=516494

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1577590

Thanks for the help!

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I found this 1982 ROA LNIB that appeared to never have been fired. I took it out today to give it a try. I did 6 shots to condition the barrel then shot 25y groups using Schuetzen FFFG, Rem #11’s and Speer .457 balls. During conditioning I noticed it was shooting high so I cranked the sight all the way down.

First group, 30gr with lubed wad and Crisco: 3.15”, 2.56” high.

2nd, 35gr with lubed wad and Cirsco: 3.50”, 3.5” high

Winter sun was low on the horizon and it was getting hard to see the sights so I got a sheet of cardboard to shade the sights for the next group.

35gr, no wad, Crisco. 2.20”, but 4.3” high!

I tried that last load again but this time offhand, and it was 7” high!

Am I doing something wrong with my loads or is the gun maybe messed up? Maybe I need a taller front sight?

BTW: The windage was perfect throughout.

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

Bumpy Rhodes said:

View attachment 369174


View attachment 369175

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Ditch the wad.

Cut your powder to 22 grains, put 17 grains of Cream of Wheat on top the powder and set a .457 ball and lube on top of it. It will go in the ten ring.

If it shoots high, raise your grip on the revolver as high as you can that will bring the ball down on the target.

Pistol is designed for a .457 ball.

fdf

FishDFly said:

Ditch the wad.

Cut your powder to 22 grains, put 17 grains of Cream of Wheat on top the powder and set a .457 ball and lube on top of it. It will go in the ten ring.

If it shoots high, raise your grip on the revolver as high as you can that will bring the ball down on the target.

Pistol is designed for a .457 ball.

fdf

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Thanks, I will consider that. I was hoping to avoid having to measure out 2 separate things. Yes, I am using .457. Not sure smaller balls would group.

Mine shot high too. I made a taller front sight, you just need some 1/8 inch steel stock, a hack saw, and a file (and a drill to made the cross pin hole). The sighting error divided by the target distance equals the additional sight height required divided by the distance between the rear and front sights. A checkering file is handy for the back slope of the sight. If I was to do it again I'd make a patridge sight, cuz I only use it for target shooting.

Use to different powder measures and mark the one for COW with masking tape so you know which measure is which.

The goal is to get the ball as close to the front of the cylinder as you can.

If a pistol shoots high, raise you grip as high as you can. Mark the back strap with a Marks A Lot where the pistol shoots at Point Of Aim. Reverse if the pistol shoots low.

Greasecookie said:

Mine shot high too. I made a taller front sight, you just need some 1/8 inch steel stock, a hack saw, and a file (and a drill to made the cross pin hole). The sighting error divided by the target distance equals the additional sight height required divided by the distance between the rear and front sights. A checkering file is handy for the back slope of the sight. If I was to do it again I'd make a patridge sight, cuz I only use it for target shooting.

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I was in the process of doing exactly that, but grinding that semicircle on the bottom is a PITA, so I just ordered the one from Numerich. Yes, I was making a partridge, I still might anyway.

I think maybe Bill Ruger was thinking about ACW pistols and might have decided the Old Army had to shoot the same? Just about every cap and ball revolver I have shot would shoot point of aim...level sights and a 6 oclock hold at 100 yds. Since I rarely shoot at things closer than 30/35 yds I really can't weigh in on shooting high at 25 yds. I can say for sure that mine shoot minute of jackrabbit at 75 to 100 yds.

stubshaft said:

I had a similar problem with one of my ROA's as it continually shot higher than normal. I called Ruger and they sent me a higher front sight blade. The stainless Blackhawks and ROA front sight blade can be changed by driving out the crosspin and replacing the blade. I got the highest blade they had with the intention of filing it down if needed.

Worked like a charm.

Click to expand...

Hey, I called Ruger for my extra-high foresight blade on March 3rd 1986, and I'm still waiting for it. Who do YOU know?

As these were military guns to start with, understanding how they viewed things is a help. As I recall the 1903 Rifle sight was 450 yards or some such.

They based it on combat, aim at belt level for close in and you hit a man sized target on out.

What we want is more precise and 25 yards became the metric of shooting a hand gun. Nothing magic about it, but if everyone tested to that, then you could have a direct comparison.

Most people that hunt with these don't shoot past 50 yards. The Accuracy is not there.

Why Ruger did not set the sights for a reasonable range as they were adjustable? But we have to deal with it regardless. Same as shooting Iron sights on a 1903.

The ROA was never envisioned as a military type gun. It was based on the Blackhawk single action.

stubshaft said:

The ROA was never envisioned as a military type gun. It was based on the Blackhawk single action.

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My understanding is that it’s based on the Whitneyville using as much Blackhawk stuff as they could. Wish they would have made the loading lever assembly better. I hate how it falls apart so easily.