Ignition Problems – No I idea what I am doing!!! Please help!

As some of you may know, I recently bought my first flintlock. I do not know anyone who shoots one so I have no mentor. It seems I’m getting as many misfires as fires. I have read posts and watched vids, obviously I’m missing something, perhaps lots of things. Some flash and no fire, some no flash at all. I am nearing wits end beginning to regret going down this path. Maybe you guys can help.

I bought the used Traditions with a black flint in the clamp. It worked fine for maybe 50rds. Even with the leather notched and the flint against the screw, the flint touched the frizzen at half cock so I was careful closing the frizzen when the pan was charged.

Eventually the tip of the flint became blunt and it was unreliable igniting the primer. (Don’t ask me whether it sparked good or not, I have no idea what a good or bad spark looks like, and the vids don’t help.)

I bought new flints from a supplier recommended by someone here. I told the supplier the frizzen was 5/8 wide and he recommended ½” wide flints. The are sort of amber colored and I have to clamp them well forward of the screw otherwise the top of the clamp hits the frizzen before the flint.

The first new flint worked fine for about 3 dryfires and 2 rds, then it became chipped and was unreliable igniting the primer. I watched vids on napping the flint, looked easy, but when I tried, big uneven chunks came out. I really have no freakin’ idea what I am doing!

I installed another ½” flint, I dry fired several times, it sparked but doesn't look as good as the vids. A vid said the flint should scrape the frizzen as the hammer drops, but mine seems to only touch the frizzen near the point of impact, I do not see evidence of rubbing all the way down like I see in vids. (I polished the face with coarse paper so I can see the fresh flint marks.). Maybe I’m not getting a good scrape? (BTW: The frizzen seems good and hard by the file test.) Perhaps the lock geometry requires my flint to be extremely forward for a good scrape?

I hope some of you will notice some obvious things I am doing wrong and set me straight. I need you guys to help turn this into lemonade!

Thanks!

Some pictures of the hammer/flint at half cock with the frizzen closed would be a big help. The flint does not have to be all the way to the back either. Preferably it will be just short of touching the frizzen (at half cock). Try turning the flint over and see whether bevel up or bevel down is better. If you are busting chunks off the flint when touching it up, you are doing it wrong. Just lightly tap it with your tool to get the rough sharp edge back. The flash with no fire sounds like you need to pick your touch hole before priming and you do not say what priming powder you are using. You say that it does not appear the frizzen is getting scraped the entire length and you may be correct. There could be numerous reasons for that. A weak frizzen spring which allows the frizzen to bounce away too fast. Am improperly dsigned frizzen/cock/lock could also come into play. Take a magic marker and coat the full face of the frizzen and that will tell you a lot. Once you get the pictures posted and try the different methods, we should be able to help you more.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I watched vids on napping the flint, looked easy, but when I tried, big uneven chunks came out. I really have no freakin’ idea what I am doing!

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Probably best to take it slow and learn to refresh a flint before attempting any knapping. I like to use a notched piece of soft steel to refresh a flint’s edge. I typically use a 16 d nail with notches filed into the end.

Do you have some nails and a small file to work with?

BruceHH said:

Some pictures of the hammer/flint at half cock with the frizzen closed would be a big help. The flint does not have to be all the way to the back either. Preferably it will be just short of touching the frizzen (at half cock). Try turning the flint over and see whether bevel up or bevel down is better. If you are busting chunks off the flint when touching it up, you are doing it wrong. Just lightly tap it with your tool to get the rough sharp edge back. The flash with no fire sounds like you need to pick your touch hole before priming and you do not say what priming powder you are using. You say that it does not appear the frizzen is getting scraped the entire length and you may be correct. There could be numerous reasons for that. A weak frizzen spring which allows the frizzen to bounce away too fast. Am improperly dsigned frizzen/cock/lock could also come into play. Take a magic marker and coat the full face of the frizzen and that will tell you a lot. Once you get the pictures posted and try the different methods, we should be able to help you more.

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Great thanks! I'll get photos first thing tomorrow morning!

SDSmlf said:

Probably best to take it slow and learn to refresh a flint before attempting any knapping. I like to use a notched piece of soft steel to refresh a flint’s edge. I typically use a 16 d nail with notches filed into the end.

Do you have some nails and a small file to work with?

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I have everything! Except knowledge! Very cool tool!!! I will make one tomorrow!!!! Thanks!!!!

Years ago there was a black rock maybe foot long by 6" dia on one of my stone walls. I thought it might be flint and placed it conspicuously on top of the wall. I tried to find it today, no luck.

It was raining, moss over everything, not sure where I left it, sucks to be old!!!

Hang in there you will figure it out.

What brand of black powder and type (2F, 3F, 4F) are you using in the pan and barrel? I just want to make sure it's real black powder and not a substitute. Subs and flintlocks don't get along to well.

Keep asking and answering questions.

One thing I did notice today was the hammer had some friction in it so when I lowered it slowly it would stop short of the pan. I slightly loosened the hammer screw and now it will reach the end of travel on its own. Haven't shot it yet.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I have everything! Except knowledge! Very cool tool!!! I will make one tomorrow!!!! Thanks!!!!

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Great. You may want to research ‘pressure flaking’ flints here and on YouTube, then ask questions. A number of variations of the technique and tool will be found, but the basic idea is to use a little bit of hand pressure to flake off bits of flint (using the notch in tool) as you work your way across the edge off the flint to ‘refresh’ it.

this is a learning curve issue mainly
practice makes perfect

Hatchet-Jack said:

Hang in there you will figure it out.

What brand of black powder and type (2F, 3F, 4F) are you using in the pan and barrel? I just want to make sure it's real black powder and not a substitute. Subs and flintlocks don't get along to well.

Keep asking and answering questions.

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3F for main charge and pan. Schuetzen. I clean the touchhole every time before dropping the charge. Learned that lesson early!

Today I had maybe 5 misfires in a row, 2 with flashes. I recleaned the hole and tried to push some pan flakes into the hole. Eventually it fired.

It is cold, I load the main charge in my workshop then prime the pan outside before shooting. Is maybe the main charge flakes leaking out before I prime?

At first, it may seem there's a lot of stuff to learn when starting out with flintlocks, but if you have a good quality RELIABLE lock, the rest is like learning to drive a golf cart. Mastering the nuances of each individual lock is, in my opinion, an aspect too often overlooked. I.e : An improperly hardened frizzen that won't throw sparks will ruin other efforts until it's replaced, fixed, or faced. Flash hole askew? Uh ...well, now that IS a problem.

Folks in this here group can certainly help, for all of us were new to flintlocks at one time. Percussion's easy - I had two percussion guns with missing.broken mainsprings, fired them with a bunch of rubber bands wrapped around the hammers. More variables with rock locks. Have fun.

cynthialee said:

this is a learning curve issue mainly
practice makes perfect

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I hate the learning part! Doesn't the internet automatically make me an expert!!!!

You are absolutely correct, I place my faith in you guys!

sheriff john said:

At first, it may seem there's a lot of stuff to learn when starting out with flintlocks, but if you have a good quality RELIABLE lock, the rest is like learning to drive a golf cart. Mastering the nuances of each individual lock is, in my opinion, an aspect too often overlooked. I.e : An improperly hardened frizzen that won't throw sparks will ruin other efforts until it's replaced, fixed, or faced. Flash hole askew? Uh ...well, now that IS a problem.

Folks in this here group can certainly help, for all of us were new to flintlocks at one time. Percussion's easy - I had two percussion guns with missing.broken mainsprings, fired them with a bunch of rubber bands wrapped around the hammers. More variables with rock locks. Have fun.

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You brought up something, the touchhole is slightly below pan level. People talk about sunrise, I don't exactly know what that is. When I remove the touchhole screw, I clear it with a 1/16 bit, but assembled, you can't fit the bit in the hole because the pan is to high. Does this sound like a prob?

Let me know if you need a photo and I can post one tomorrow. Thanks!

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I hate the learning part! Doesn't the internet automatically make me an expert!!!!

You are absolutely correct, I place my faith in you guys!

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You have to "do to learn", and "learn to do." When it clicks, it will be worth it.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

Today I had maybe 5 misfires in a row, 2 with flashes. I recleaned the hole and tried to push some pan flakes into the hole. Eventually it fired.

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A flash in the pan with no main charge ignition is a different challenge. Figure things out one at a time, and starting with getting near 100% pan ignition is a good place to start.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

It is cold, I load the main charge in my workshop then prime the pan outside before shooting. Is maybe the main charge flakes leaking out before I prime?

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Main charge leaking out should not be a problem. I went with a larger touchhole than most (5/64”) years ago, and have near zero ignition issues as long as the pan charge lights up. I use 3F for the main charge, and with a little tap a on the barrel after loading a bit of powder will appear in the pan letting me know everything is clear. Note that I keep the frizzen open while loading for safety reasons.

try leaving your touch hole pick in the hole when you load the gun you do not need or want powder it the hole it will cause problems . you can make a pick from wire if you don't have one

Since you have no one else to watch the issue your wrestling with, you really really really need to make a video of the hammer strike ( leave the gun unloaded of course) as well as photos of the lock/ barrel.
Honestly it could be a dozen or more things causing this and suggestions or conjecture will continue until ???

If it's cold there and you keep going inside to load then back out to fire... you are likely introducing some moisture into/onto the steel from the temperature changes. Stop doing that. Stay outside or wait for warmer weather. Lots of other suggestions here can be very helpful but sounds to me like you more than one issue going on.

Bumpy Rhodes said:

I clear it with a 1/16 bit, but assembled, you can't fit the bit in the hole because the pan is to high. Does this sound like a prob?

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I would suggest NOT using a 1/16” drill bit to clear the touchhole, particularly when the gun is assembled. About as aggressive as I get is using pipe cleaner. You may want to try something as simple as a straighten out paper clip to clear the touchhole and pick the powder. And if you want to go completely non HC/PC you could try something like a soft dental pick.