Modern reproduction Hawken shots between cleaning bore?

Good evening,

I just recently got into Civil War .58 muskets and have found that with properly sized Minie balls, as one could expect, I can fire shot after shot after shot without having fouling issues when loading. I'll swab the bore after 50 or so shots just to keep the fouling soft, but I could probably shoot close to double that without much issue and accuracy is more than acceptable. With that said, I have been interested in building a Investarm Gemmer .45 (preferred) or .50 Hawken kit just to have a project but have some reservations. Really, my main reservation is the cleaning aspect.

The videos I keep seeing from Friendship Indiana with their woods walk and various other traditional black powder events that revolve around patched round balls don't really touch on the necessary frequency of swabbing the bore with "moose milk" or other solvents. I don't have an issue with cleaning but would like a realistic expectation with patched round balls. Do I need to clean the bore every 5-10-20 shots? I'm not going to shoot for a trophy, but would, if given the opportunity, like to shoot on occasion walking through the woods at some steel targets, or perhaps off some sticks, or even a log somewhere, just to enjoy myself. I'm not opposed to cleaning in the slightest, I just want a rifle I will be able to load and fire more than once without being limited to a full-bore cleaning between shots. I know I can buy full "drop in ready" polished barrels with breech plugs installed but I'm not really all that invested. At that point, I'll just keep shooting my 1863 Springfield. I just think this could be a cool new thing to get into and assembling/finishing it myself would be a rewarding project.

Thanks in advance.

I can shoot a match of 35 shots with out wiping. I use Dawn and water mix on my patch. It’s possible to shoot more but that’s all our club match requires.

I have a couple of Investarms .50 cal. Hawkens. I use Old Turkey Track (from Taylors) on the patch and push the ball down with dawn and water dampened patch over a jag. Like Phil, I can go 35 shots without cleaning and load easily.

35 shots is great. I'd be thrilled with that! I guess I have been apprehensive about this for no real reason. Thanks. There is a local show coming up soon and I will see what I can find there.

Flatlander55 said:

35 shots is great. I'd be thrilled with that! I guess I have been apprehensive about this for no real reason. Thanks. There is a local show coming up soon and I will see what I can find there.

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Is your concern with finding a gun or a patch lube? Only way to learn about these guns is to shoot them and then make your own decisions.

If you have the time between shots, swabbing the bore with a spit patch is quick and easy.

I have an older rifle, and I have to swab every 3 to 5 shots in order to load easily. Otherwise, I have to bounce the ramrod to get the ball down the last 2 inches.

Phil Coffins said:

I can shoot a match of 35 shots with out wiping. I use Dawn and water mix on my patch. It’s possible to shoot more but that’s all our club match requires.

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What ratio are you using, I have experimented with 50/50 but would like to try a little less Dawn.

At our weekly league shoots (patch and ball) I never need to swab between. At our day shoots, I frequently can go 25 shots or so without noticeing any increaase in bore crud. Alot depends on the load you shoot, powder weight, how much lube on your patch...etc. here in upstate NY, humidity on that given day actually can make quite a difference.

Moose Milk = shoot all day.

A

French Colonial said:

What ratio are you using, I have experimented with 50/50 but would like to try a little less Dawn.

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About 40-60 or their abouts. My load is 80 grains of 2F in a 54 calibre 32” barrel. Humid is generally about 10-15 percent

If you use a good lube there is no need to swab between shots. I shoot 20+ every time I shoot and never clean till done. Last shoot my Dad said you sure shot enough and I just told him hey I am having fun. A good lube will keep you shooting all day.

It all depends on what lube you use and how much. Alot of people will do bore butter moose milk dawn ect and they typically can shoot longer without wiping because the fouling soft.

Some people do spit patches or Dutch dry patch system and they have to swab more typically.

2 other large factors is How tight a ball patch combination are you running and then also how deep the rifling is on your rifle.

Deeper rifling is more forgiving. I have a sharron with deep rifling and it loads very easy when compared to my pedersoli which rifling isn't as deep.

But if you really want to shoot a hawken I would suspect you can find a patch lube combination where you can shoot all day no problem and still have accuracy as well you can shoot the rifle.

But my experience and what has worked for me.

I like to shoot not clean.

waksupi said:

Moose Milk = shoot all day.

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Yes, me too.
I believe that one could shoot indefinitely while loading with "wet" patches, using water soluble cutting/grinding oil and H2o.

The oil seems to be better than soap because it leaves a thin coat of protective(ish) oil on the bore as it dries.

Soap and spit tend to clean to bare metal, making the metal vulnerable to rust, as it dries

Freedom said:

Yes, me too.
I believe that one could shoot indefinitely while loading with "wet" patches, using water soluble cutting/grinding oil and H2o.

The oil seems to be better than soap because it leaves a thin coat of protective(ish) oil on the bore as it dries.

Soap and spit tend to clean to bare metal, making the metal vulnerable to rust, as it dries

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In my climate, the soap and water lube did not work well. It seemed to set the fouling harder when it came time to clean.

It depends on what kind of shooting I do. Normally, I do a basic swabdown between stations in a match.

I have an Investarm .50 cal Hawken percussion, which is a great shooter, I've won some club contests shooting it. I typically use drylubed patching and swab between every shot. Because this yields the best accuracy/tightest groups for this rifle. But if doing a woodswalk or other event where I'm loading from bag and horn, I predampen strips of patching(I cut at the muzzle) with Mr. Flintlocks patch lube/bore cleaner and can shoot 15-20 shots before needing to swab the barrel. And when i do need to swab, I just use the same predampened patching. Takes 15 seconds to run a patch or three up and down the barrel a few times. Nothing to get hot and bothered about having to do.

Accuracy is paramount, and a consistent bore is one of the keys to that. When loading gets stiff on that final 6" or so, it's time to swab.

Thanks for the input gang. Looks like I'll have a new area of interest shortly if things go well at the show.

I use the store bought moose milk. T/C Number 13 bore cleaner.
When its all used up, I already have a batch of Stumpy's jarred up.

Lots of lubes mentioned here that allow you to shoot over and over without swabbing. They all share one feature; they are wet! I shoot soap and water without wiping between shots. I can also shoot spit without wiping. Spit is great for roving or woodswalk. No need to have a lube container. Just pop a patch in your mouth while you pour the powder and then patch the ball.

For hunting i use a greasy lube and wipe with spit between shots if there's more than one shot. You don't want moisture in the barrel long term.

French Colonial said:

What ratio are you using, I have experimented with 50/50 but would like to try a little less Dawn.

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Ever since that utube video got passed around the 50-50 mix has become a hallowed and repeated formula. I've been shooting soap and water for about 6 years now. I started out at about 75/25 water soap and have been steadily reducing the soap side Ever since. It's so low now that I could not reduce it to a formula but here's a picture. The lower black line marks how much soap was in the container and the top line is where I added tap water to. Works great and not soapy or gooey when used.