1777 charlevilles on the frontier

[Florida airgunner]

Hi guys
I found this picture on the web recently which seems to be depicting a frontiersman speaking with some Indians. I don't have much background info on the picture but what I'm interested in is the musket the frontiersman in the center of the picture is carrying.
It appears to be a 1777 charleville and you can clearly see the stock cutout and barrel bands typical for a 1777.
People usually say the 1777 only served with French troops during the AWI, but my question is how common would they have been out in the frontier and is there any other documentation of people using the 1777 out west?

 

[Youngblood]

I dont personally know of any documentation on them but yeah its a nice sturdy gun of large caliber and if thats what you had thats what you would use, and im sure people did.

 

[Sam squanch]

It may have been a rendering of what the artist was familiar with at the time, or a studio prop. I don’t think many 1777 ‘s were used in the early days, carrying one might have marked you as a deserter from the army or a thief.

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi guys
I found this picture on the web recently which seems to be depicting a frontiersman speaking with some Indians. I don't have much background info on the picture but what I'm interested in is the musket the frontiersman in the center of the picture is carrying.
It appears to be a 1777 charleville and you can clearly see the stock cutout and barrel bands typical for a 1777.
People usually say the 1777 only served with French troops during the AWI, but my question is how common would they have been out in the frontier and is there any other documentation of people using the 1777 out west?

Its not a 1777 charleville depicted in the painting, at least that’s not how i would view it.

Left over 1763’s and 1766 and 1768’s were sold off to civilian and private companies in vast quantities to make pay for the war debts, tens of thousands were sold off, only the best ones were kept by the Fledgling US military after the War to be used by militia and specimens for creating US manufactured muskets such as the 1795 and Virginia Manufactory Muskets.

Many of the 1763’s and 1766’s were modified for personal use by american civilians after the war, collectors call it an ‘americanization’ feature.

This included removing sling swivels, and shaving down the comb and butt stock.

I’ve seen at least 20 or 30 original 1766’s with modified stocks, Americans didn’t like the 63 or 66 butt stocks because they were very swelled around the comb and flutes, they were an oval shape at the butt stock and semi circular around the flutes through the wrist.

Here are some pictures of 1763’s and 1766’s with shaved butt stocks.

 

[FlinterNick]

I dont personally know of any documentation on them but yeah its a nice sturdy gun of large caliber and if thats what you had thats what you would use, and im sure people did.

There were many guns similar to the 1777 pattern in America after the War.

The french sent over many variants of models 1763, 1766, 1770 and 1774, the later period 1774’s can be easily confused with a 1777 less a few features.

Also Dutch muskets and carbines shipped over after 1776 were banded and had some butt stock shapes similar to that of a 1777.

 

[Clark Badgett]

There were many guns similar to the 1777 pattern in America after the War.

The french sent over many variants of models 1763, 1766, 1770 and 1774, the later period 1774’s can be easily confused with a 1777 less a few features.

Also Dutch muskets and carbines shipped over after 1776 were banded and had some butt stock shapes similar to that of a 1777.

Don’t forget our very own Model of 1812 also had a cheek cut out until 1816ish.

 

[Cayman like]

Don’t forget our very own Model of 1812 also had a cheek cut out until 1816ish.

I've seen that illustration before and labeled as Robert Rogers as the frontiersman.

 

[smoothshooter]

Hi guys
I found this picture on the web recently which seems to be depicting a frontiersman speaking with some Indians. I don't have much background info on the picture but what I'm interested in is the musket the frontiersman in the center of the picture is carrying.
It appears to be a 1777 charleville and you can clearly see the stock cutout anId barrel bands typical for a 1777.
People usually say the 1777 only served with French troops during the AWI, but my question is how common would they have been out in the frontier and is there any other documentation of people using the 1777 out west?

I’m sure they were used, but at this late date we will never know specifics.
Do not depend on artists renditions of anything technical or detailed unless the artist is known for historical accuracy.
As someone else has mentioned, the parts of the gun shown may simply have been the only type of gun the artist was familiar with.
In a lot of period paintings and drawings the lock area of any firearms is cleverly covered by the hunter’s arm, coat, or other obstruction to save the artist having to show details of something that is hard to draw and he may not be familiar with.

 

[FlinterNick]

I've seen that illustration before and labeled as Robert Rogers as the frontiersman.

Its possible the artist was not knowledgeable about the period muskets.

 

[wganz]

Not unlike every evul gun today is called an AR15.

 

[Florida airgunner]

Thanks for the help guys

 

[tenngun]

Just of note. My dad was a CB during the Second World War. He never saw action. He had a photo done in battle outfit and had a Thompson in the photo, but it was someone else’s.
He was issued an M1
So
He was on duty at peal harbor repairing equipment sent back from the pacific war. Still had to have a full kit.
He didn’t like his m1, he called it a cheek kicker. He cut a cheek plate like on the 77 Charley. I was nineteen when I got a Zouave. And he taught me how to cut such an indention
He seems never to have gotten in trouble for his field modification. And he kept his marksman qualifications

 

[RiverRat]

Its possible the artist was not knowledgeable about the period muskets.

Here is a painting that my wife surprised me with. She mailed a picture of me holding my smooth rifle FLINTLOCK, to an artist in California. Apparently the artist didn’t have a clue what he was looking at, so he made up this contraption he thought was a lock. I definitely agree that artists are not always accurate.

 

[Mle1822]

There are a ton of firearms that have resemblance to or are nearly identical to the french patterns of late 1700s.

 

[Clark Badgett]

As has been noted, artists’ renderings of historical events often aren’t historically accurate as far as equipment and clothing goes. Take a look at a lot of the great old masters’ battle scenes from the renaissance. Roman and Greek armies in clearly anachronistic armor inspired by the then current stuff in use. Even in American CW battle scenes painted in the 1880-90s often had uniforms that were outright copies of the then current style and even fabricated. You see the same in movies between the 40-80s.