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nkvd

40 Cal.
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Hello All

Not to re-open a stale can of worms but with the
discussions about India made repros,could it be that metal strength quality and manufacture QC
was far superior 3-400 yrs ago? I mean if there
were that may failures and injuries I am sure the vendors would have all been sued 100 times over by now or stopped offering the sale of these repros. That or Dateline NBC or maybe Geraldo
would be investigating this theory? :shake:

Cheers,Rob
 
Let me close all this, by reminding you that only guns made in the USA are subject to US laws on Products liability.

Imports are not.

Whatever comes out of India, or Pakistan, or wherever is what you get. Some guns are made better than others. Rarely are source information stamped on barrels, or actions so that the piece can be traced back to a specific manufacturer. You have to work back through the chain of sale to find the manufacturer, which might be a very small shop working on contract. If an injury or death occurs here because of a defective product, you don't get to sue the manufacturer from India over it, here in our courts. Does this put American Gun makers at a decided disadvantage in the marketplace? Of Course it does! It costs them more money to carry insurance, and that cost has to be added to the cost of the guns they sell. Competitors selling guns made in Europe and Asia do not have those costs.

The only deterrent to overseas manufacturer dumping truly dangerous goods on our markets is information sources like this forum, where the word on any injuries caused by a defective product from overseas can be quickly spread all across the country, which will negatively impact their sales here almost instantly.
 
My guess would be that they're probably not up to par with the average firearm of that era. The Indian reproductions of today are made for reenactors and gun buffs and because of this they're more of a prop or a range toy than they are a serious weapon. Not that there's anything wrong with them, it's just that a military weapon or a serious hunting piece will usually be made to higher standards since people are betting their lives on them. Those were guns built by trained professionals for serious use and low end replicas aren't likely to stack up well in comparison.

OTOH, I would guess that today's steel, (Indian steel included), is better than 18th century iron and Indian guns are probably stronger and safer than their original counterparts.
 
I recently read Ezeliel Bakers book on the Rifle.
He mentions the problem with brown besses blowing up at the battle of Waterloo. He did not give exampiles Does anybody have any additional information of the problems with the King's muskets in 1814-1815? Baker said { all of the King's muskets are self priming } They also used undersized balls and even Tap Loaded!!! :hmm:
 
A reminder that the India or Pakistani made musket that burst was examined by a metalurgist who said there was some kind of blockage in the barrel. No matter who makes it, a barrel blockage is bad news for a smoothbore!
 
Thanks to all who replied :thumbsup:

And with todays economy I don't know if I will even get to buy anything anytime soon :(

Rob
 
paulvallandigham said:
Let me close all this, by reminding you that only guns made in the USA are subject to US laws on Products liability.

Imports are not.

Whatever comes out of India, or Pakistan, or wherever is what you get. Some guns are made better than others. Rarely are source information stamped on barrels, or actions so that the piece can be traced back to a specific manufacturer. You have to work back through the chain of sale to find the manufacturer, which might be a very small shop working on contract. If an injury or death occurs here because of a defective product, you don't get to sue the manufacturer from India over it, here in our courts. Does this put American Gun makers at a decided disadvantage in the marketplace? Of Course it does! It costs them more money to carry insurance, and that cost has to be added to the cost of the guns they sell. Competitors selling guns made in Europe and Asia do not have those costs.

The only deterrent to overseas manufacturer dumping truly dangerous goods on our markets is information sources like this forum, where the word on any injuries caused by a defective product from overseas can be quickly spread all across the country, which will negatively impact their sales here almost instantly.

Paul,..I'll take you at your knowledge of the legal aspects associated with Imports and foreign "Mom & Pop" shops who produce them. I'm sure that the average person could not pay the tab for legal fee's in running down all the facts associated with a law suit against a faulty foreign manufacture.

This world is a true "BUYER BEWARE" for everything and still runs true today, as it did in the early days of our country AND the world!

Thanks Paul,
Rick
 
The saving " grace " for firearms, even those made overseas, is that we now use steel, and steel is now being made in large foundries, in huge batches to keep the costs down. It is NOT made in small, mom and pop shops. It may be used in those shops, but the basic raw steel is manufacturered in plants that do have quality control. The Firearms market, even in India, is way too small to have steels made ONLY for that purpose.

The end result is that the guns made there are usually safe because of the steel used in the barrels, and the low pressures generated by true Black Powder. If a lot of imported guns were blowing up and injuring Ameicans, restrictions on those imports would be imposed. That threat allows American standards to affect positively the work done overseas.

Our Product Liability Laws, a creation of Judicial Activism in the 1960s, are not applied to foreign manufacturers. Better ways to protect consumers were found shortly thereafter, by Congress, and state legislatures. The Product Liability doctrine created by our Supreme Court to hold manufacturers and all subsequent members of the " chain of sale " responsible for injuries and deaths arising out of defective products( Stretching the " Foreseeability" doctrine in Tort law to its most illogical conclusion) still remains.

{ I still believe a 10 year Sunset Provision for all laws passed at both the State and Federal level should be the subject of a new constitutional amendment, so that our government has to re-examine laws every ten years to see if they are actually doing the good intended to be done, and decide if there isn't a better way to accomplish the intended purpose.]

I had a Tort Professor named Jeff O'Connell, who was famous in the 1960s for his books on "Tort Reform", where he was trying to socialize civil litigation by removing Fault as an element to be proved by Plaintiffs to recover damages for their injuries. Our legal system didn't go that far, but we are saddled with Comparative negligence standards in most states, and with Product Liability laws, that raise the cost of all American made goods, without any real recognizable benefit to consumers.

We do get warnings now, that tell us that HOT coffee is ---- HOT?*#@**??!!----- and that we can suffer burns if we pour it over ourselves. And, I saw a sticker on the new lawn mower that reminds me that the blade is rotating and can cut things that get under the mower housing!

Other than these " Here's your sign " stupid warnings, and the smiles we all get when we learn of yet another device that warns us that it does something its expected to do, I have to wonder if Comic Relief is the original goal of those Justices. The higher costs of goods, the jobs lost overseas from this country, the difficulty competing with the cost of production of other countries to produce goods and services here in America are all the downside of these " reforms!"

If "Contributory Stupidity"[Here's your sign!] were allowed as a defense to manufacturers in our current Product Liability law, many of the outrageous judgments that have crippled Industry in our country would not exist, and sanity might return to this body of law. :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
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