1840 Pocket pistol

[misterfish]

Hi

I bought a pocket pistol a few years ago which was sold as being made about 1840. The name on the barrel is Redfern and Goddard of London.

I can find no information about nor reference to the makers and wondered if anybody could throw any light on the subject.

I've included a couple of pictures and if anybody is interested I could post a few more. The inner diameter of the muzzle is .4625 inches.

Being in the UK I am subject to very limiting gun ownership rules - as this is an antique and only held for ornamental/collecting purposes I do not need a firearms certificate.

Thanks

Misterfish

 

[44-henry]

The name sounds familiar, but I can't place where I have heard it before. As for the gun itself it is a fairly common screw barrel pistol. There would have been a wrench included with the gun originally and the shooter would unscrew the barrel, place a small charge of blackpowder in a chamber in the frame and than place a lead ball on top of charge. After this the barrel was screwed back onto the frame. The lead ball was slightly oversize to the barrel which resulted in a good gas seal that gave the pistols a bit more power than would have been obtained with a plain patch and ball. Some of these guns had triggers that dropped down when the gun was cocked, yours doesn't. It is a neat pistol, but they aren't particularly rare due to the fact that tens of thousands were made. It is possible that the name engraved on your gun was a distributor and not the actual maker.

 

[colmoultrie]

Don't expect wonderful velocity (or accuracy) if you do shoot it. Using a .454 ball my pocket pistol bounced a ball off of 1/2" plywood when Chuckpa and I shot it about 7-8 years ago. This was filling the cavity to the brim and then clamping down the barrel on a .454 Hornady ball that swaged down into the barrel.

The ball bounced off and rolled back to the toe of my boot at about 7 yards. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have wanted to get hit with it. The human body is a lot more yielding than plywood, which is, I suppose, what made these pistols best-sellers for their day.

 

[misterfish]

Thanks to you both for the information. I had assumed that the barrel unscrewed but didn't realise that it was charged with the barrel removed and then the barrel replaced. The nipple is not screwed in tightly and can be unscrewed by fingers alone. I am a bit retiscent about using a wrench on the barrel as I don't want to marr the surface.

As for shooting it - there is no way I could do this in England, but when I visit my brother in France I may arrange to take it as he uses a black powder Remington revolver.

 

[Zonie]

misterfish:
If you do decide to shoot it, the nipple must be tightened.
By "tightened", I mean it should be brought down "snug" and then tightened just about 1/16 of a turn more. Over tightening it is as bad or worse than under tightening it.

Often, the muzzle of these pistols will have what appears to be deep rifling. They are actually the feature that the special wrench engaged to remove the barrel. The .4625 measurement at the muzzle may be a local size with the actual bore being slightly smaller than that.
As you don't have the special tool, I wouldn't suggest that you try to remove the barrel.

Also remember the powder load for these pocket pistols was very light, perhaps 6-10 grains (by volume).

 

[JasonUK]

As for shooting it - there is no way I could do this in England, but when I visit my brother in France I may arrange to take it as he uses a black powder Remington revolver.

Hi Mister Fish, Thankfully (and against the inclinations of our devious UK government), you can legally still shoot your pistol in the UK. You will have to get a Fire Arms Certificate (and a Black Powder one too if you intend using BP and not pyrodex. Many members of the Muzzle Loaders Assocation of Great Britain use original antiques in competitions and can frequently be seen to be shooting better scores with their originals than pistols and muskets 200 years their junior!

You would have to be sure of it's ability to withstand being fired again, of course, so getting it proofed would be the advice of many shooters, I am sure. Understandably you may not, of course, wish to subject your pistol to the pressures of being fired, and it is a delightful pistol which looks quite happy on display. Take a look at the MLAGB website to see what we get up to. www.mlagb.com

 

[misterfish]

The barrel seems to be smooth and circular on the interior. There is a protrusion on the underside of the barrel that I thought would engage with a special wrench - it looks like a series of marks on it that could have been caused by using/slipping of the wrench. I sort of expected the wrench to be a semicircular shape with a notch to engage the protrusion. The following picture shows the protrusion

.

Misterfish

 

[misterfish]

Thanks Jason for the info and link - I had no idea that these facilities existed in the UK.

I only found this forum after speaking to my brother in France who is shooting a .44 Remington revolver replica (ball, black powder and cap). He suggested that it would be a good source of information - which it has turned out to be.

It had never occurred to me that it would be possible to own and shoot this type of weapon in England considering the ongoing demonising and banning of handguns by the authorities. The only other gun I own is an air rifle that I use to try and keep the rabbit population under control.

I shall spend some time working through the MLAG list to find any suitable local clubs.

Misterfish