1842 smoothbore questions

[GEW]

I have been live firing a rifled Armisport 1853 Enfield for years. I have also been using it in Civil War reenacting. So, I am fairly comfortable with the mechanics of firing a rifled musket.

I have bought a new Armisport 1842 .69 cal smoothbore to diversify my Civil War reenacting impression, and I would like to live fire it as well.

I am a total novice at smoothbore loading and firing requirements. I have read several associated posts here and these appear to be more oriented to hunters, initially I am just looking for having some target practice at a range.

There are 25 yard and 100 yard range distances there.

Some questions:

What size roundball for a .69 cal?

Can I fire a minie?

Patch or no patch to either roundball or minie?

If yes to patch, what size? thickness? Can these be purchased in bulk?

Double patching recommended? (one behind, one on top of ball)

If patching, best lube?

Powder charge for 25 yards vs. 100 yards?

Is it worth trying to hit anything on the 100 yard range or is that a waste of time and powder?

Any help anyone could provide me would be greatly appreciated, :sorry:I aplogize if all this info has already been covered somewhere else in the forum and I just didn't see it..... :thanks:

 

[Doc Arroyo]

So ya bought one of them new fangled muskets! I reinact 1846 to 1849, so you got the new stuff!

I usually shoot a .62 flinter, but I can help with a few of your questions....

What size roundball for a .69 cal? .678 is Track of the Wolf's recommendation

Can I fire a minie?
I don't think so. It was designed as a round ball musket. Plus I doubt the Minie would expand that much.

Patch or no patch to either roundball or minie? If yes to patch, what size? thickness? Can these be purchased in bulk?
Patched round ball. Try .010" or .015" ticking for a start. I buy Ox Yoke brand for my rifle, but use cheaper stuff for my smoothbore. I take my micrometer into the yardage shop, measure and buy a yard or two of material. Wash it at least twice before use to get the chemical sizing out.

If patching, best lube?
I like Bore Butter

Powder charge for 25 yards vs. 100 yards?
Is it worth trying to hit anything on the 100 yard range or is that a waste of time and powder?
I shoot 65gr of 2f. I figure that you will find a comfortable accurate target load somewhere from 65 to 85 grains. My smoothbore can shoot a ragged hole at 25 yards, holds black at 50, dinnerplates at 75. At 100 it is a bit of guesswork, but still fun on the trailwalk!

Have fun, and safe shooting!

 

[musketman]

What size roundball for a .69 cal?

I used a .678 round ball in my .69 caliber...

Can I fire a minie?

They have made a minie in .69 caliber, but it won't stablize well without rifling to spin it...

Patch or no patch to either roundball or minie?

yes and no, depending on what you want to do, I used a .015 pellowtick patch with the .678 round ball... Another option is a wad on each side of an unpatched ball, or even paper patching works well...

If yes to patch, what size? thickness? Can these be purchased in bulk?

Depending on the ball's diameter, you can by pillowticking by the yard or even a whole bolt of ticking, then cut them into strips or precut patches, some people wash the sizing from the ticking first and line dry...

Double patching recommended? (one behind, one on top of ball)

This would not be necessary if the patch/ball combination is a good fit, I am leery of a cloth patch in front of the ball, this would act more so as a barrel obstruction...

If patching, best lube?

Experiment with different lubes to find the best load, even in the same style guns, one may like liquid lubes better than paste lubes... I prefer paste lubes to liquid for the sole reason of leeching lube onto the powder while in the bore...

 

[brubincam]

i shot with a guy that wrapped his brown bess balls with aluminum foil...it shot like a rifle at 50 yards

 

[Java Man]

Did he wrap them completely? Seems like an edge of the foil would catch the breeze and come right off. Maybe that's the point? :hmm:

 

[big bore 75]

When I was skirmishing within the n-ssa I watched a team using 1842 spring fields use and load their smothies with a round ball and alluminum foil diped in lube they were lubeing a lube from mcm the shooting was awesome to watch them destroy 2x4 stacks, but unsure what happend to the foil after shooting, the N-SSA has a rule for it but don't know it at the present. bb75

 

[The Dog Man]

Depends... shooting on the range for accuracy, you'll want to go to patched round ball, and the suggestions made so far are all good ones.

If you want to replicate the military load, the standard was "buck & ball", a .650 round ball paired off with three #1 buckshot and backed by 110 grains of powder. It's a hoss of a load... but very effective out to about 100 to 120 yards or so in the open field, and just murderous at closer range.

:m2c:

 

[musketman]

If you want to replicate the military load, the standard was "buck & ball", a .650 round ball paired off with three #1 buckshot and backed by 110 grains of powder. It's a hoss of a load... but very effective out to about 100 to 120 yards or so in the open field, and just murderous at closer range.

:m2c:

Buck and ball loads are (for the most part) set up this way, other variations have been tried and work just as well:

Paper cartridges can be made like this:

 

[FearNot]

I've seen the tied buck 'n ball diagram before and I THINK I remember seeing round ball tied also. Question - how does the paper on a tied round, like that, separate from the ball? Or does it separate? Does it just continue on down range all tied together? That wouldn't seem to make much sense...but then... who knows? Curious minds (like mine) want to know! ::

 

[brubincam]

the brown bess ball was not patched with the foil it was wrapped with it

 

[musketman]

the brown bess ball was not patched with the foil it was wrapped with it

Was the foil wrapped ball then cloth patched or just rammed ontop of the powder? :hmm:

I could see wrapping an undersized ball with foil to take up the difference in gap, bringing it's diameter up to the standard .715 round ball...

 

[brubincam]

the aluminum foil wrapped ball was not patched dont remember seeing any foil on the ground neither,could it have burned up?

 

[musketman]

the aluminum foil wrapped ball was not patched dont remember seeing any foil on the ground neither,could it have burned up?

I know when I'm cooking on the grill and I have a roaring grease fire (again) the foil will burn, so a lubed section of foil in a barrel with exploding powder will get obliterated...

 

[brubincam]

great photo....put one of those weeners on for me... :thanks:

 

[smokeblower]

I fire a .690 unpatched roundball with a thin .125 card between the ball and powder. I lightly knurl the ball between two files, and use Bore Butter. The Lee mould that I use did not leave room for a patch. It was right at .690 when cast. i use mine for hunting and buckshot coyote thinning. Coyote loads are 100 g of ffg Goex and Blue-Gray cushion and over shot cards from Dixie Gun works. You can make your own cards and stack them if you want to remain CW PC. I read somewhere where a old wasp nest was used for the cushion back in the day. i would love to have a fist full of minis, but not bad enough to pay the Lyman price for the mould and then have to buy the handles. The Armisport is a close copy of the real 1842. Here is a close one I had my hands on a few days ago. It is an original 1822, converted to percussion.
http://www.shilohrelics.com/shop/custom_show_images.asp?SKU=SR14579

Smokeblower in West Tennessee :grey:

 

[Rat]

Ok...I'm thinking that foil patching has GOT to be VERY hard on the barrel. I hope NO ONE around here would do that!
No offense to anyone but I think that idea SUCKS BIG TIME.

A .650" ball with a denim patch might work very well. I found that a .690" ball with a denim patch fits perfect in my Brown Bess (.750") barrel, although I have not fired one yet. However, the .650" ball in the .69, and the .690" ball in the .75 are the "traditional" ball sizes for those muskets.

A minnie in a smoothbore will generally produce about a six foot group at fifty yards, at BEST! Forget about that! Probably very deadly at ten yards...!!

Generally speaking, a smoothbore is a good fifty yard weapon for hunting with a ball. (I know you are interested in range-work, but "hunting" accuracy is a good "yardstick") But the load has to be "tuned" in just like a rifle. A good load and accurate gun will get you out to 70 yards, as far as keeping them on a kill-zone sized paper plate. But I believe that's about it, in most cases. Some exceptional guns and shooters can get out to 100 yards, but that's kind of rare.

My Brown Bess will shoot "pinwheels" at 25, 3" at 50, and stay on the paper plate at 70 yards. I have rifle sights on it. After that shots begin to disperse quite a bit. Fun shooting at 100 yards for sure, it's "worth" tying, at the range. Just don't shoot at a deer at 100! (or place any bets)

My best accuracy to date is with ffg Swiss powder, Wonder Lube 1000+, Wonder Wad under the ball, .735" ball, .018" pillow ticking.

I can see NO reason for any kind of "double patching".

Rat

 

[whitetrash078]

What is the front sight like on a 1842? Is it a chunk of metal like a bess, or is it a blade? Also is the stock comfortable under recoil or is it like a charleville?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The sight is integral with the forward barrel band and is a blade type. The bayonet lug is under the barrel. I find the stock to be very effective in handling recoil, even with maximum loads.

 

[GEW]

All these replies are greatly appreciated! :thanks:

I'm going to start with a .678 roundball at 50 yards
with an .010 patch and see what happens.

Thanks to all for their input....

Musketman, I've had those same cookouts - great photo!