1858 .44 cal Conical Mold

[Erik550c]

Hello,

I would like to buy a conical mold for a heavier round in my 1858 New Army for deer and coyote hunting, however I was turned off to conical molds because I want a working conical mold without having to buy multiple molds and experimenting. I heard that the conical rounds are hard to get in the cylinder because they protrude and the cylinder can't rotate, or the conical just will not seat correctly. I will be using 88% Bismuth and 12% Tin with the mold. Anyone know of a conical mold for a 44 cal (.454 round ball) Pietta 1858 Remington New Army that will work right out of the box?

Thanks!! I've heard of Lee molds, maybe they make a conical that will work?

 

[Erik550c]

Oops, posted this topic in the wrong section.

 

[Maven]

Erik, Look at these molds: http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/black-powder-conical-cap-and-ball/

 

[rodwha]

The Pietta frame will need to be modified to fit a conical. It might be that you can design a conical through a custom mold maker where it drops further into the chamber having a longer base.

I modified mine and love it.

 

[Erik550c]

What does it take to modify the gun?

 

[rodwha]

The frame is somewhat squared. Because of this it won't allow the cylinder to turn with a conical sticking out. It needs to be rounded and I used a grinding attachment on a drill and sandpaper to round and smooth it.

 

[rodwha]

I used masking tape to cover the openings to keep debris out. Don't want any of that in the action or cylinder pin!

 

[Zonie]

Even with the frame modified, the nose of the bullet must always be below the face of the cylinder when it is loaded.

If it is not, the cylinder won't rotate.

As for loading bullets into a Remington Army that can be difficult even if the bullet is made of pure lead.
The loading lever is somewhat weak and the over chamber size bullets need to have the outer diameter sheared off for the entire length of the slug.

Smaller slugs that are under chamber diameter size won't work in a Cap & Ball revolver. They will "walk out" of the chambers due to the recoil and their loose fit is asking for a chain fire to happen.

That said, if Bismuth and Tin bullets are going to be used (per California "No Lead" regs), a cylinder loading press is almost a mandatory thing to use.

The bismuth & tin bullets are much harder than pure lead and I think loading them with the pistols loading lever will result in breaking it or the screws that hold it in place.

Kind of a pain to take on a hunting trip but I strongly recommend getting one.

Also, anyone thinking of using a C&B pistol to hunt with needs to fully check out the State hunting regulations.

Many States do not allow black powder pistols or revolvers for large game because of their lack of power.

 

[rodwha]

And some, such as here in TX, can't be used during muzzleloader season as it doesn't load from the muzzle.

It can be carried as a sidearm though, and can be used as a primary weapon during any other season or for exotics.

 

[nkbj]

My two cents worth.
This is for a .36 but a modified round ball mold would work the same way for a .44.
Increasing the lead weight with the minimum loss of powder space, no lube grooves to lighten it, aligns itself in the chamber, only the "ball" shows as it is rotated under the ram.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You are trying to reach the moon with a Model T.
If you can get within pistol range of ole' coyote a pure lead round ball will end his wicked days just fine. The 1858 was never intended to be a .44 magnum. It is an olde timey style gun, use as is and enjoy.

 

[rodwha]

And during the Civil War it was mostly fed conicals as intended. But then even the Walkers came with a mold that dropped a conical.

A RB if fine, especially for coyotes. But the conicals were preffered for larger critters according to Keith's Civil War friends who were there.

Must have missed the part about wanting a magnum...

 

[Rifleman1776]

What does it take to modify the gun?

A machinist/gunsmith. But, methinks one with integrity would decline the job.
What you are attempting is beyond what the antique/obsolete style c&b revolver was designed. Again, methinks you will be happier, and safer, with a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag.

 

[rodwha]

Funny as they were originally designed to use conicals. Pietta just didn't make their frame properly. It's not like you don't know this though.

Not really sure why you'd suggest a .44 Mag either. These do the job just fine. Can't quite argue with a projectile that will go nose to tail through an adult hog and even with a ball has the same ballistics as a ball shot from a rifle at 100 yds and gives the exact same results. But then you know that too.

 

[nkbj]

Blunticals can work pretty good too!


But that full wadcutter is a real splatter bullet.
Only 3 1/2" penetration!
:haha:

 

[Erik550c]

Alrighty, thanks everyone.

 

[timothy prouty]

HEY look at moose mold co they can help.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Funny as they were originally designed to use conicals. Pietta just didn't make their frame properly. It's not like you don't know this though.

Not really sure why you'd suggest a .44 Mag either. These do the job just fine. Can't quite argue with a projectile that will go nose to tail through an adult hog and even with a ball has the same ballistics as a ball shot from a rifle at 100 yds and gives the exact same results. But then you know that too.

Earlier I had said:

If you can get within pistol range of ole' coyote a pure lead round ball will end his wicked days just fine.

 

[Erik550c]

Thanks!

 

[AZbpBurner]

And during the Civil War it was mostly fed conicals as intended. But then even the Walkers came with a mold that dropped a conical.

A RB if fine, especially for coyotes. But the conicals were preffered for larger critters according to Keith's Civil War friends who were there.

Must have missed the part about wanting a magnum...

A while back, someone posted some actual info from Samuel Colt about roundball weights per pound and also his recommendations for loads for his revolvers. Nowhere did he mention conicals or any projectile other than RB's. I'm guessing that tale about the Army using mostly conicals is either wishful thinking, or something, if actually used, thought up by a supply clerk & not a ballistician.