1858 Pietta .44 Conical Tests

[nkbj]

Calling them "conicals" being I'm doing tests to figure out how the elongated pointy nosed service loads may have worked. Or didn't.
First sizing to .450 and then using a .443 sizer to reduce the hind end of various molds to go in the chambers rather than alter a mold to make a "conical". Leaving the front big enough to shear on the chamber mouth.
These loads are all with Jacks Battle.
Lyman 452484 (227 grain HP)- 20 grains average 517FPS
Lyman 452066 (223 grain)- 20 grains average 523FPS
Lyman 452066 (223 grain)- 25 grains average 561FPS

Any yall know how much powder was in the various service cartridges?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Keep in mind that some powders back then were more powerful than todays goex. Manufacturers also could specify their own grade from the powder mills, so it may have been something between 2f and 3 f or even between 3f and 4f.

 

[nkbj]

And powder back then no doubt varied more than powders today, up and down the scale, perhaps especially so with government contractors. For the purpose of these tests I'm sticking with the single GOEX product as a Goldie Locks zone.

 

[nkbj]

Then again, maybe should try FFFFg?

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I shoot 225 gr. Lee conicals out of the Walker. This bullet design has a narrower backside, which allows you to use thumb pressure to start them so you can rotate the cylinder to let the loading lever & rammer come into play. The bullet also has a wider front which grips the chamber walls quite well, even with Bore Butter applied liberally to the grooves.

Since Bore Butter is in the grooves, I don't use a wonder-wad. No wonder-wad means I get to use my standard 52 grain charge, provided I ram the charge to compress it PRIOR to loading lubed bullets. Since a '58 Remmy comfortably holds 35 grains of FFFg Goex, a wonder-wad & .454 ball, I'd start with 30 grains, use rammer & lever to compress powder, apply lubed bullet & have at it. You might have more room for more powder? I've found the difference in bullet height is made-up by NOT using a wonder-wad :wink: , so it may take up to 35 grains (with powder compression).

Fillin'-up the chambers with compressed FFFg should get the job done and bring the speed up near or over 800 fps. The use of a custom Pistol Loading Stand or the loading of the cylinder while it sits in a loader disconnected from the frame will enable maximum compression of powder so as to provide uniform seating depth, which in-turn will create very repeatable results with a LOW sdv & very tight groups.

Good luck & continued success with your experiments.

All the best!

Dave

 

[nkbj]

Hey Dave.
Been looking at the designs on the recovered service loads bullets. The long pointy configurations they used to poke through clothing really cut back on the powder charge. But still the armies did what worked. Tried to approximate the length of some originals to try to get a ballpark on the velocities they may have been working with.

Hey, if anybody has info on how much powder some original service cartridges used please share.

 

[nkbj]

Here's a picture of packaging that says 18 grains in .44 cartridges (middle left). Looks like the one at upper left says 16 grains. http://www.ammo-one.com/ColtCombustible.html

 

[rodwha]

Gatofeo had found quite a bit of Civil War pistol cartridge info in both .36 and .44 cal. I tried to find it, but can't seem to. It's certainly on some other forums, but it won't allow any links here.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Keep in mind that soft lead under pressure from loading levers will turn a ball into a wad-cutter, especially in the Dragoons, since the loading levers on them can really "take it" pressure-wise. Making a wad cutter by filling-in the dimensions of the chamber walls will give maximum surface area to the lands upon entrance into the forcing cone. So depending upon how soft the bullets (pickets?) are that you're using and how hard you ram, you'll get more powder in there, just like I did. 45 grains in my 3rd Model Dragoon with a .454 Hornady ball gets me over the sound barrier.

Again, continued success!

Dave