1861 Springfield Rifle Musket bullet size

[GMAR]

I purchased an Armi Sport replica 1861 Springfield Rifle Musket some months back, my first one. It is .58 caliber. I purchased the recommended .577 caliber minie bullets for shooting without a patch.

It turns out the bullets were too large for the bore so the place sold me a bullet compressing cylinder device. I still ended up having to ram the bullets down the barrel even after compressing them.

I thought the whole idea behind the minie bullet was that it was supposed to slip right down the barrel with little or no ramming.

What caliber size should I get for this gun? Also, do I need to lubricate the bullet? Thanks in advance.

GMAR

 

[paulvallandigham]

For best accuracy, the experts here recommend that the ball be sized .001" Under bore diameter. What is the actual bore diameter of your Repro? Use calipers to measure the bore, and then measure the conicals you bought. Then measure the conicals after running them through the sizer. You have to clean between shots for those to seat easily at all. The guns have shallow grooves( usually no more than .003" deep, and often as little as .0015"! ) But, when you use a tight bullet to bore combination, you get much better accuracy. Just don't expect fast loading. In the day, the bullets used were WAY undersized for the bores, to facilitate rapid fire without any cleaning. The guns were miserably inaccurate until enough fouling had built up that the bullets flew correctly.

 

[gjkershul]

Yes you do need to lubricat the projectile before you size it. I find sizing to .575 works in the one rifle musket I have.

 

[Zonie]

In theory, you should not have a problem with using the .577 minie' bullets in your gun.

The problem with theory is that reality often steps in to make things difficult.

Chances are that the ".577" minie's are oversize which would explain your first problem so I agree that using a bullet swaging die to reduce their size was a good idea as far as it went.
From your description of having to use a lot of force to ram the sized bullets down the bore, the die you bought is still too large.

Ideally the diameter of the minie' should be .003 smaller than the bore of your gun and the only sure way to find out what size the bore of your gun is is to measure it with some calipers.
There is a problem with doing this with many of the .58 caliber Civil War reproductions though.

Many of these guns have three rifling grooves and these grooves are just about the same width as the unrifled areas of the bore so if you just measure straight across from one place to another chances are very good that one side of your calipers will be resting on the bore and the other side will be sitting in a groove. This of course gives a incorrect measurement that is larger than the true bore size.

With some guns that have narrower rifling grooves you can get a good measurement but you have to watch closely to make sure that both probes are in contact with the unrifled bore at the same time.

The reason it is recommended that you measure the actual bore size is because of manufactures tolerances. While the bore should be .580 in diameter they cannot make every gun with exactly that size. Some companies do a good job of coming close but some don't.

My Armi Zauove for instance has a true bore size of .577 (as near as I can tell after several attempts at measuring it). That is the reason a .577 minie' is hard to ram in this gun just like yours is. In a fouled condition it is dam near impossible.

I would suggest that you try to find a sizing die that reduces your minie's down to about .575-.576 and try them. Your other option is to buy some .570 diameter roundballs and patch them with some .015-.018 thick patches (like I do).
These roundballs often shoot very accurately and the gun will kick a lot less (making it a lot more fun to shoot).

As for lube, yes, the grooves in the minie' should be filled with something like Wonderlube or a vegetable shortening like Crisco.
This lube will help with loading and it will keep the fouling soft.

 

[JohnnyO]

Get some .575 minies. Mine shoots both .575 and .577 well, not sure why your rifle is having a problem though

Where did you purchase your .577 minies? Only place I've found so far is dixie gun works

 

[Moloch]

A friend of mine has the same rifle, a Armi Sports 1861 .58 rifle. He had bad accuracy with .575 520 grain conicals with the deep hollow base, they were way undersize.

He then tried .577's with the flat small base with 600-andsomething grains and accuracy increased dramatically. Even .577 feel slightly undersized for me as they really fall down the bore. He shoots it with 65 grain swiss 3FG but he thinks of getting a .579 mold.

Its quiet puzzling that .577's dont fit with your rifle, the bore of the friend rifle seems to be slightly over .58, I guess .581 or even .582.Does armi sports make barrels with bores differing that much? :shocked2:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You still have to ram Minies to seat them on the charge. If the Minie drops down the barrel without ramming it's too loose and will slip off the charge if you lower the barrel while carrying the rifle-musket. This will ruin your day--and maybe your left hand, too. If you shoot righty that is.

 

[rebel727]

My Armisport Enfield has a bore of .580 and my Lyman traditional mold throws minies out of the mold at .577. They don't fall down the bore but the weight of the ramrod will push them down to the last three inches. My Lee improved minies come out of the mold at .576

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

.577 or .578 Minies should stay put when seated with the ramrod. Smaller ones, if seated smartly with the rammer usually don't creep either--probably because the skirt is expanded just enough to hold them in place. But very loose Minies, just dropped down the bore, are an accident waiting to happen. I had a couple of guys, new to rifle muskets, ask about doing this because they'd seen it done with a Brown Bess and a ball load. Drop the ball in the muzzle and slam the butt on the ground, aim and fire. They wanted to do the same with their Springfields and Minies.
They both still have all their fingers and their rifle-muskets are in one piece, so I guess they saw the error of their ways.

 

[Trot]

Armi Sport barrels do vary quite a lot. My 1861 is .581 and I have to use a .580 to get any accuracy. It takes a lot of experimentation with bullets, lube and powder charge to get the optimum load for the rifle musket. You have gotten some good advice, you can also check out the NSSA web site for all kinds of info on shooting the rifle musket.

 

[GMAR]

JohnnyO,
Thanks for your help. Yes, I did purchase the bullets online from Dixie Gun Works.

 

[GMAR]

Thanks one and all for your advice. It sounds like I have some work to do. I will purchase a pair of calipers and get the bore size. This is why I love muzzleloaders. You gotta do some legwork! I have been shooting muzzleloaders now for a little over a year and I love it more and more each time I get the chance to do it! Thanks again. This forum is really invaluable.

 

[JackAubrey]

I have the Armisport 1861 Springfield and the 1853 Enfield.I have slugged the barrel and it mikes @.581.Yes, there is apparently a range of bore tolerances.I have tried all sorts of minies and so far I have found that it doesn't matter if I put the bloody cockers in skirt up or down the accuracy is about the same,and this w/ pure lead.I spent some time at the North South Skirmishers Association website and it seems I have some options.First, I can have someone fix the lock so it doesn't have the 25 pound trigger pull.Then glass bed the stock, then who knows what else.Or I can have it rebarreled.Or I can throw it in the river or sell it to a reenactor to fire blanks out of and buy a James River Armoury Springfield.I just dont have the time to fool with them anymore.I hope you more joy than I.Best regards,J.A.