18th century Smoothbore lifespan

[Leadball loader]

Somewhere in my reading recently I was surprised to see the author state that guns only lasted a few years. Guns were considered consumables.
I had also read somewhere that Native American took care of their firearms.
Considering the corrosive propellant used it is not surprising that guns became unusable if neglected but those who depended on their gun must have been able to keep it serviceable longer than a few years.
A gun would surely have been serviceable even if lightly rusted inside and out.
Maintainance was lot harder but if you need a tool you look after it.

 

[tenngun]

Most guns seem to have been an adult one owner piece. We know guns were constantly moving west, both for Indian and white use. We saw original French and British trade guns that were manufactured in eighteenth and early nineteenth century being used by Indians well into the twentieth century.
Meek told the story of a cleaning dispute over guns in 1827. And worms were sold independently and as a set with the guns.
Guns were as expensive or even more so back then as they are now, I expect that many were abused and did not last, but the fact that FDCs got converted to percussion and remained in use demonstrated that some were cared for. There is more then one Indian owned Leman rifle and lots of frontier used rifles that look as if they were well cared for.

 

[Artificer]

During the 18th century, British Ordnance considered the "normal" lifespan of an Ordnance issued "King's" smoothbore Musket to be 10-12 years and that included either Peace Time or War. This even though in Garrison in either peace time or war when they were not fighting or campaigning, the Soldiers stood an inspection with their arms every day and the barrels and locks had to be free of rust and properly oiled and the brass polished and the stock finish in good condition.

Looking at the lists of repair parts and tools that British Ordnance sent along to the colonies with the Regimental Artificers/Armorers for both the FIW and AWI, it seems apparent they were kept in top maintenance condition as well. However, these arms were most likely used much more than many civilian arms.

A smoothbore used only for recreational hunting could have lasted a very long time, if they were cleaned and preserved correctly by town or village folk. A smoothbore that was used on the frontier, would have been used more and thus would naturally wear out faster.

Of course the better quality guns with better refined Iron used in making the locks and barrels, would also have lasted longer than less expensive Iron used in some to many Trade guns.

So it would be really hard to say how long a civilian smoothbore would last in the 18th century because it would depend on the quality of the gun to begin with, how often it was used and how well it was cleaned and maintained.

We "modern folk" often have unusual views of how long guns do or should last. We might look at our Grandfather's or even Great Grandfather's Model 70 rifle and are amazed by how accurate it is when it may be 50 to 70 years old, or even older. However, since most folks don't shoot a box of 20 rounds a year, the barrels are just "broken in" and have at least that many more years of use (if not double those years) left in the barrels. The actions are good for at least four or five or barrels or more, when properly cared for.

Yet someone who often competes in high power competition will burn out a barrel in anywhere from one to three years, because they shoot them so much.

So even modern guns will "wear out" pretty soon if they are shot a lot and especially if they are not properly cleaned and maintained.

Gus

 

[Stantheman86]

I read a story about a Brown Bess that saw use in 5 wars, and had the provenance and correct parts to back up the story....it was a current for the period issue British Brown Bess, used by the British in the F&I War, captured/found whstever by a Colonist and later used by a Colonial militiaman, used again in the war of 1812, converted to percussion at some point and used by a Confederate soldier in the War Between the States

, he survived the war and brought the musket home to North Carolina, it sat above a mantle until 1942 where an old guy in that family carried it as a "home guard shore patrol" weapon where men too old to enlist or draft patrolled the shore looking for German saboteurs and assuming this man had no other firearms, they told him to "report for shore patrol and bring a gun" he took the Brown Bess off the mantle , I guess loaded it (maybe) and manned his volunteer post as a shore watchman.

So this weapon got some pretty good use in, I would say.....I don't recall what parts were replaced etc but given that it was likely only fired in combat it might have only seen a handful of rounds...as long as they're kept rust free they'll be good.

 

[tenngun]

Reading your post set me to ask about something I’ve often wondered about but haven’t seen a lot written about.... how much did they shoot?
A deer hunter lived by dead deer, so he might give a few shots in a year. How about others though. A settler might want to feed is family but there are not that many shots to a winters meat. A troop of men on the move, Mountain men or trades men say might go several days between killing something, or one hunter might shoot every day but the others in the brigade not.
Fighting Indians was rare.
Kenton was a hunter and might burn out his gun in a few years, but the families he was hunting for how often did they shoot.
I can’t prove anything here, I’m just rambling but I wouldn’t be surprised if we shoot our guns a lot more then the typical trans frontier person.
Indians too tended to do big multi family ”˜hunts’ then not have to may be for sometime. :idunno:

 

[Bo T]

Attitudes probably differed amongst groups. Many groups considered horses and dogs 'consumables'. That attitude, today, is frowned upon. So, as I have read, the average life expectancy was @ 40y for a person, the average life expectancy of a smoothbore may have been, on the frontier, less than 10y. Which is probably longer than a self bow under the same conditions.

 

[Bo T]

There tend to be a lot more small game, than large game. So a medium deer might feed a family of 8 for a couple of weeks, but how many squirrels would it take? Now, a lot of game would be taken other ways, but I would not consider 40 rounds a year to be unreasonable.

 

[Elnathan]

Somewhere in my reading recently I was surprised to see the author state that guns only lasted a few years. Guns were considered consumables.

I recall Mike Brooks giving two years as the average life of a trade gun, specifically a type G.

Most of those were traded to the SE Indians, who were hunting deer for their hides as a normal occupation - deerskins were the main article of trade for most of the 18th century and Indians were dependent on European trade goods by that time. Average guy was probably whacking at least 500 deer a summer just for their skins, plus any fighting or hunting for food beyond that. So a gun that wasn't particularly well-made or durable was being used pretty hard.

I don't know where the 2 year figure came from, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of GA traders' ledgers are still in existence, and since Indians mostly bought on credit year after year (and accordingly the traders needed to record who owed what) I would expect it to be possible to track how often particular individuals purchased guns. There is a thesis project for someone if it hasn't been done yet...

 

[Artificer]

Great Story!

We should also not forget John Burns of Gettysburg, PA who had been a Veteran of the War of 1812 and brought home his musket. During the early part of the Battle of Gettysburg, he became a 69 year old civilian combatant with the Union Army and was STILL using his War of 1812 Flintlock Musket - almost 50 years after the earlier War, though the stock had been shortened as seen in the daguerreotype photo shown in the following link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Burns

Also, at the beginning of the UnCivil War, there were many old but serviceable flintlocks left in storage in Richmond, Va. Though most of them were ones made by the Richmond Armory, some were old U.S. Muskets, but 300 were listed as "English Muskets." Not sure if any were older, but the "newest" ones in that group were no doubt left over from the War of 1812 as well.
Gus

 

[54ball]

You have to be careful with "average".
That 40 years of age counts infant and child deaths which was atrocious in that time period.
If a person made it to 20 and had good health, they could expect to live into their 50s and beyond.
It's much the same for guns......
Some were broken a week old. Others that have 200 years on the clock are shot on Pawn Stars. :idunno:

 

[azmntman]

Excellent read. TY

 

[tenngun]

That’s true, but just a tour through an old grave yard you will see a lot of forty somethings. Women’s childbirth death rate was horrendous.
”˜Beat you like a red headed step child’was an old saying that arose from so many kids who lost a parent, the now single parent remarked only to die soon after and the step parent remained too. The child was raised by parents unrelated to him.
For every Ben Franklin there were several John Paul’s jones and Nat Greenes.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The child was raised by parents unrelated to him.

Very common and difficult to research or document. Also, many 'married' couples were, in fact, never properly married by a preacher or had their union recorded with the county clerk.
As for the life of guns back then. The locale of where the gun lived would be a big factor. A rifle or smoothie in Louisiana would, most likely, be a hunka rust quickly if not given extraordinary care. OTOH, one in the dry desert or high mountains might last nearly indefinitely.

 

[54ball]

This talk of lifespan has some merit in the life of a trade gun.

How long did the Indian last?

Hamilton's book features many many trade guns " killed" and buried with thier owners.

We know the skin trade was brutal. Alabama Indians would go west of the Mississippi for skins, They might travel North to the Ohio Valley as well on skin hunts.

I have read that they were burning through moccasins so fast that they used raw skins. The moccasins would wear out before they rotted.

Since the nature of the skin trade was..... what it was, a hunting party could easily turn into a war party.

Nlot only do have just the dangers of the hunt but also other parties claiming the same ground.

 

[Leadball loader]

I read in Morgan’s bio of Boone the harvest of deer for hides led to times when he shot large numbers in a day. That indicates a very high usage.
Boone used both rifle and Smoothbore and frequently lost them to Indian trades and debt payment. I guess now I think of it that made guns a consumable.
I would guess that there were many similar individuals in that era.

 

[54ball]

I think his name was Captain Will a Shawnee.
He seized all of the Boone party's hides, rifles and horses and put them a foot with an old shot gun, horn and shot bag with a warning never to return.

 

[nhmoose]

I am still waiting to burn a pan out of a flintlock. One of mine has over 3K shots fired in competition. Pan is still as it was when I built it.

I cleaned it after every hunt or match over 20 years. Pan looks the same, same touch hole too.

Seems to me CARE made a big difference.

 

[Rifleman1776]

How long did the Indian last?

It is rumored there are still some around.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am still waiting to burn a pan out of a flintlock.

Same here. I had never even heard the notion of pans burning out until a recent thread here. OTOH, touchholes do burn out eventually.

 

[Artificer]

I am still waiting to burn a pan out of a flintlock.

Same here. I had never even heard the notion of pans burning out until a recent thread here. OTOH, touchholes do burn out eventually.

In the book Colonial Frontier Guns by T.M. Hamilton, it shows a bare excavated flintlock lock plate where the pan was burnt through, repaired with brass or bronze brazing and then had burned through again. It seems to suggest the parts were deliberately cannibalized off it before it was discarded.

I think that happened from extreme use and perhaps both poor quality/less refined Iron plus maybe poor case hardening and of course a HECK of a lot of use. Since we don't have the barrel or any other history on the gun the lock originally came from, it is also possible the Vent Hole had enlarged a lot to cause that much burning of the pan. Of course we will never know for sure, but I find that excavated part fascinating.

Gus