1st Shot Pouch attempt

[Brokennock]

Finally made my 1st attempt at a shot pouch. Bought the leather many months ago, just got the nerve to start cutting and stitching leather mid-September. Hoping I can make the picture thing work. Bought this leather at the local Tandy,

Made a couple cloth patterns based off an existing bag that I like for size. Played with them a bit for how to piece it all together and have it all land in the right place when turned rightside out. The bag, flat pocket on front compartment, divider, and strap are from the above leather, 100% cotton mattress ticking is sewn to the strap to fight stretching, and the leather folded over the top seam where the flap is sewn on is dyed, mink oiled, and snow-sealed Tandy "buckskin."

More to come later. Comments, constructive critiques, questions, are welcome. There are definitely things I will do different next time.

 

[BrownBear]

Especially good for a first attempt. Lotta extra sewing over and above a basic bag, and you both laid it out well and executed it well. Nice clean stitching- in fact better than some folks with lots more experience.

Beware of addiction though.... It lurks right around the corner! :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Looks like a 'keeper' to me! :hatsoff:

 

[Cruzatte]

You've obviously put a lot of thought into your work. And it shows. Nicely done! :hatsoff:

 

[hawkeye2]

Your planing certainly paid off. Nice functional bag. I had never seen a strap attached by a button but it has a lot of possibilities, interchangeable straps with/without horn attached, different accouterments, etc.. Does the cloth backing to the strap make it less resistant to slipping?

 

[Artificer]

Agree with Brown Bear that it is especially good for a first attempt.

Pigskin is certainly an authentic period leather and one I think we avoid too much in reproductions today, but maybe because we can’t get pigskin in thick enough leather. However, I wasn’t familiar with “distressed pigskin,” so I looked it up and it is listed as 4 to 5 oz., which is a great thickness for shot pouches. Have not seen modern tanned pigskin that was thick enough for a shot pouch before.

Good job on not stitching across the width of the strap, except at the bottom, when you attached the strap to the pouch.

Bravo on the correct way to make an antler button. It looks like you copied that feature from the original Shot Pouch owned by Wallace Gusler? Do you have another button or anchor inside the pouch, so the button stitching won’t rip out of the bag in use? The original pouch had double or “linked” buttons to preclude that from happening. I realize this feature made the strap adjustable without having to use a buckle, but I have often wondered if it worked out well. As you use it, could you let us know your thoughts and experiences?

You did a pretty darn good job dyeing the buckskin flap to match the rest of the pouch, but I have to ask if you ran out of the pigskin leather to use for the flap, or if there was some other reason you chose to use deerskin for the flap?

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

You did a pretty darn good job dyeing the buckskin flap to match the rest of the pouch, but I have to ask if you ran out of the pigskin leather to use for the flap, or if there was some other reason you chose to use deerskin for the flap?

I agree on your points about the button Gus.

But looking at the back side of the flap when it's folded up, I'm pretty sure it's pig skin too. I think I'm seeing the same "bristle" pattern there as on other parts of the pouch.

What say you, Brokennock? :grin:

 

[Artificer]

Maybe I misunderstood what the OP wrote: "and the leather folded over the top seam where the flap is sewn on is dyed, mink oiled, and snow-sealed Tandy "buckskin."

Not sure what leather that would be, though, from his description.

Gus

 

[George]

Good job, Brokennock.

I think you will like the pigskin. I have two bags made of it, one single and one double, and they are holding up very well after hard use for over 20 years.

Spence

 

[Brokennock]

I did copy the button attachment idea from Guzzlers original bag and so far it works out great. There is reinforcement on the other side but not in the form of a button.

The flap is pigskin like the rest of the bag. It's just the molding piece that folds over the top that is different leather. It's that soft "buckskin tanned" stuff Tandy sells that often looks orange.
It's been dyed using their "eco-flow" the, fudge brown I think is the color. I diluted the dye in a plastic cup with some tap water and put the cut to size leather in and let it soak. When I take it out I apply a little more dye to the wet surface and let it sit a bit. I've had good luck dying that leather this way for a few projects now. Working in a good amount of Mink Oil from both sides then sno-seal on the outside really helps to darken it up and kill that weird original color.

Sewing that cloth to the strap was the worst, most tedious, p.i.a. part of the whole thing. But, it does keep the strap from stretching, the pigskin is very stretchy when cut in strips, and seems to offer just the right amount of slippage on the shoulder. It stays put til I need it then slides well when I pull the bag forward for access if needed. I did heat and work sno-seal I to the fabric upon completion of the bag.

 

[Brokennock]

As far as not stiching across the strap, I learned that from one of you here recently. I was just to lazy to backstich and start anew 3 times so just carries over from row to row.

 

[Brokennock]

A heartfelt thanks to all for the compliments.

Much of what I got right, I learned here. Button construction, strap stitching not crossing the strap, pattern making and experimentation, as well as a few other things.

I really tried to use things about doing the job that I learned here over the years combined with what little I've seen and read of original bags for design.

I do seem to recall seeing pigskin listed as a common leather for original bags. I actually brought a cow hide leather bag I bought a couple years ago into Tandy trying to match the leather and couldn't. This leather is interesting in that when scratched or pulled so as to discolor, just rubbing it brings the color back. Downside being it's hard to mark and marks left by a stitching wheel are easily rubbed away and lost amongst what looks like pores in the grain. I purposely it the flap oversize as one thing I hate in a bag, that seems common with ones I've seen for sale, is a flap that looks neat and proportional till your stuff is in the bag, then it doesn't want to stay closed without a button. Unfortunately I screwed up trying to final trim it post production and failed to keep the sides square to eachother.

Not sure about "addiction" on this BrownBear, maybe if I had better workspace and tools. But, I probably will make one or two more to fill my needs and correct some mistakes. Any tips or advice? Any better way to get all those holes punched and lined up with eachother?

Thanks again all.

 

[kemart17]

very nice, good work

 

[George]

I do seem to recall seeing pigskin listed as a common leather for original bags.

I did an inventory of the types of leather used in the collection of shot pouches in Madison Grant's book, The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch. Not all the pouches had the type mentioned, but these are the ones which did:

Cowhide -- 28
Calfskin -- 26
Pigskin -- 4
Calfskin with hair on -- 3
Bearskin -- 1
Sheepskin -- 1
Buffalo -- 1
Buckskin --1 (Indian)
Moose -- 1 (Indian)
Beaver -- 1 (the famous Medina pouch)

In 18th-century newspapers, few mentions of bags include the material they are made of, but these three unusual ones showed up.

1765 otter
1772 old sheepskin
1775 blue plush

Spence

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks Spence, even though it's only the one, that "blue plush" bag seems to come up in a lot of conversations.

Some rifleman was, FABULOUS, or at least thought himself so. I knew Rip Taylor was older, but who knew he was a Rev. War rifleman. :idunno:

 

[George]

Yeah, somebody was all duded up.

"....a smooth bore gun of the best sort, double breached, ....a shot bag and powder horn, very much carved, the strap of the powder horn made of striped girting, and the shot bag of blue plush."

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

This leather is interesting in that when scratched or pulled so as to discolor, just rubbing it brings the color back. Downside being it's hard to mark and marks left by a stitching wheel are easily rubbed away and lost amongst what looks like pores in the grain.

Sure sounds as though you're describing Tandy's Stoned Oiled Leather. My favorite leather for bags. The colors you saw might have been different, but that's a perfect description of the way it acts.

My tip for using a stitching wheel on it are pure 20th century cheating, but it works. After running the stitching wheel but before doing anything else, I take the time to go back and hit each mark with a fine-point brown Sharpie. Done.

As for tips, while you're at Tandy I'd get Al Stohlman's book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" Incredibly useful for bags and lots of other stuff. Add to that a copy of T.C. Albert's book "Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch,
how to create a fine aged American Rifleman's bag" and you have about 95% of the references you'll ever need for bags and more.

Never fear.... By the time you finish several more bags, the danger of addiction is closer. Finish it off by using the same skills and materials to make a camera bag or two, a fishing bag or two and individual cases for about any other outdoor gear that will stand still for you. You'll be hooked for sure and looking for folks that need genuine hand crafted gifts for birthdays and holidays! :thumbsup:

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks. Those books have been on my list. I have LOTS of books. Need more places to put them before I get anymore.

 

[Artificer]

This leather is interesting in that when scratched or pulled so as to discolor, just rubbing it brings the color back. Downside being it's hard to mark and marks left by a stitching wheel are easily rubbed away and lost amongst what looks like pores in the grain.

That’s the problem using “stretchier” temper leather, even when you stretch it as much as possible before cutting the pieces out.

I purposely it the flap oversize as one thing I hate in a bag, that seems common with ones I've seen for sale, is a flap that looks neat and proportional till your stuff is in the bag, then it doesn't want to stay closed without a button. Unfortunately I screwed up trying to final trim it post production and failed to keep the sides square to eachother.

I wasn’t sure if that was what happened or if you had deliberately tapered the bottom of the flap outwards. Sometimes to often with stretchier leather, it is best to leave the flap oversize and not cut the width of the flap until the bag is sewn up, exactly for the reason you mentioned. Something else that can happen with stretchier leather is you cut it exactly parallel before you sew it on, but after the flap is sewn, the perfectly parallel sides are off at an angle from the way the pouch sits/lays.

Though it is not necessary as many original pouches did not have perfectly parallel sides, you could correct that outward taper or width of the flap by laying it down on a board and keeping the strap well back from being cut. Then lay one of the large aluminum rulers or a board with a straight edge on one side of the flap to change the angle on each side of the flap. Put pressure on the aluminum ruler or board with your non cutting hand and use the straight edge as a cutting guide for your knife. Once you change the angle a little on one side, you could then do the other. Just be careful you don’t cut too much on either side at once.

Not having worked with pigskin even as thick as 4 to 5 oz., I have to admit I wasn’t sure if the strap would be too stretchy. Though sewing the ticking to the underside of the strap was a PITA to be sure, it was a good way to correct that. I prefer my straps a little wider than seen on some original pouches as a way to compensate when the strap leather is stretchy. Since we have so darn few original 18th century pouches, I don’t think one can state that every pouch was made with an original narrow width strap.

BTW the original pouch owned by Wallace Gusler was almost certainly made by a full time saddler or cordwainer or at least a person with some real leather work training and experience in the period. I doubt the average person made their pouch as nice as that one in the period, unless they had some leather training.

Gus

 

[George]

Not having worked with pigskin even as thick as 4 to 5 oz., I have to admit I wasn’t sure if the strap would be too stretchy.

My pigskin is just shy of 4 oz., my straps are 1 1/8 and 1 3/8, they aren't lined. i've never noticed any stretching. I work hard to use minimal gear, so on average they are never really loaded down, but stretch has not been a problem for me.

I like pigskin.

Spence