.32 cal CVA Squirrel Rifle Pattern Issue.

[ike]

I have just acquired a CVA Squirrel Rifle and I am not able to get it to pattern. Tried 15 Gr 3f Goex to 40 Gr Goex in 5 gram increments. Pillow ticking patches from .010 to .018 in thickness. I am shooting RBs that are .311 to .313 in Diameter. Best I can do is 2 inch group with 25 Gr at 25 yards off a rest to hold the rifle real steady. I am using Moose Snot for a patch lube. I am wondering if the size of the patch is affecting the accuracy. The patches do wrap around the ball and come up in the barrel about 3/16 inch. This rifle has really got me puzzled. Thanks for any advise.

 

[Treestalker]

I used to use patches made of pillow ticking cut out with a penny for a pattern lubed with Crisco. Made sure my sprue on the ball was towards the muzzle when loaded. Used 20 gr 3f in a Green mountain barrel. Brother did the same in a Douglas barrel. German Nobel caps. Of course this was before cactus grew on the border :shocked2: No problemo. Tree. :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have just acquired a CVA Squirrel Rifle and I am not able to get it to pattern. Tried 15 Gr 3f Goex to 40 Gr Goex in 5 gram increments. Pillow ticking patches from .010 to .018 in thickness. I am shooting RBs that are .311 to .313 in Diameter. Best I can do is 2 inch group with 25 Gr at 25 yards off a rest to hold the rifle real steady. I am using Moose Snot for a patch lube. I am wondering if the size of the patch is affecting the accuracy. The patches do wrap around the ball and come up in the barrel about 3/16 inch. This rifle has really got me puzzled. Thanks for any advise.

I hope you mean "grain" when you said "gram". :shocked2:
I am not a fan of tiny bores for round balls, they can be finicky. Ticking is pretty thick stuff to.....uh....stuff down a tiny hole. I note you used something thinner. Personally, I would limit further testing to the thin stuff provided it is a suitable material for patches. Lotsa variables in this game. e.g. are thr round balls pure soft lead? Maybe you are using too much lube? Is Venus in the house of Mars? Did yer wife tie knots in her apron? Keep at it and let us know results.

 

[Billnpatti]

Go to this website www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com Purchase a copy of Dutch's accuracy system. You can also send him a PM on this forum telling him what all you have done and your results. You can even give him a phone call and discuss it over the phone. Dutch is the master when it comes to solving accuracy problems. His full name is Harold Schoultz but he goes by "Dutch". Click on the "Members" tab and type in "Dutch Schoultz". Then click on the "Private Message" tab and send him a PM telling him all about your trials and tribulations with your rifle. I can't stress enough the value of his accuracy system. It will be the best $20 you will ever spend on this hobby.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You are posing a bit of a puzzling question. My first thought is that your patches are too big. I like to have my patches just slightly larger than the ball. That will mean cutting the patch at the muzzle. Start the ball and patch just far enough to clear the cutting. Best if you can see the ball and patch at the muzzle.

What do you patches look like after firing? Are they cut any by the rifling or the crown? How many shots have you fired with this rifle? If this is a new rifle, then the crown may be too sharp and cutting the patches. You may have a sharp spot in your rifling that is cutting the patch. Measure your bore to be sure that it is really a 0.32. Happens sometimes that tolerances are such that you have a bore different than what you expect. Put in a new nipple. Sometimes the flash hole gets burned out, although that shouldn't happen with a 32. Are your balls cast or swaged? Weigh your 32 caliber balls. The weight should be consistent within about 1 grain.

First look at your patches to see if there is something happening with your rifling or your crown.

If this shooting happened on a windy day, be aware that the wind can play havoc with attempts to get a group from that small caliber rifle.

 

[Semisane]

Ike, I too recently acquired a .32 CVA Squirrel. You can see a report of my first (and so far only) range session here.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/288261/post/1389840/hl//fromsearch/1/

My patches are 3/4" square. For me, I believe the sights have quite a bit to do with the groups I got. I had a bit of a problem getting a consistent sight picture with the shape of the rear sight. Before my next session I'm going to file the top flat and widen the notch a bit.

 

[spaethjm]

I just bought a G M 32 cal for the T C Renegade. I think a 30 in barrel will need a wheel barrow to tote itt.. I am going to try a 31141 Lyman bullet from my 30 cal rifle 170 gr. I also have a 90 gr for my 32 pistol. Just to see what patters it is a 1x 48 so I think the shot pistol bullet will shoot the best.. It not than I go to PRB.

 

[ike]

Patches are not cut. The fabric is frayed in front of the point with contacts the barrel. this is normal. I will measure the barrel to check it out. Even with a thick patch, I do not have to try very hard to start the ball. I do have a fair amount of Moose Snot in the patches because I melt the snot and put the patches in it to soak it up. I have done the same with all of my other calibers with no problem.

 

[ike]

Second answer to your question. My patches and 7/8 in diameter.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Don't worry about excess patching in front of the ball it has no effect on performance. That is not the source of your lack of consistency.

 

[BrownBear]

Even with a thick patch, I do not have to try very hard to start the ball.

That peaks my interest. My 32 is a Crockett rather than a CVA, but best loads all require a little effort to get them started. Groups at 25 yards with a tighter combo are more like ragged holes, however.

Measuring the bore will tell you some things, but I'd also experiment with less lube on the patch. I find accuracy in small cals suffers with too much lube, not just in the Crockett but also in my other small cals.

I'm using either TOW Mink tallow or a homebrew of deer tallow and olive oil, but I get the best results when I just swipe a dry patch across the surface of the lube, transferring only enough to mostly fill the weave.

I also wonder if having lube on both the inner and outer surfaces of your patches due to soaking is an issue. MS is dandy stuff and ought to work with a smear rather than a soak.

Idle patter, but worth tinkering with I bet.

 

[stinkyfeet]

I use a .310 hornady round ball, .015 patch lubed with TOTW bore cleaner (trimmed patch at muzzle), .25 grains of 3f schuetzen and I get about 3/4 groups at 25 yards off the bench. Thats with the .32 cal CVA squirrel gun, I get better luck with it than the 45 cal barrel that came with the kit.

 

[mooman76]

If the RBs are going in easy, might need to try a bigger one.

 

[ike]

Just came back from the range. Used 25 grains of powder for all shots. First five shots with thicker patch were all over the place. Decided to cut the excess material off of the patch when the ball was even with the muzzle. Next two shots inside the 1 1/2 orange circle. Continued for 3 three more shots only one outside the orange. Five more shots using same load. 4 out of 5 in the orange. Next tried some thinner patch material. No good. I just finished cutting some 5/8 patches and see if these work and then start to refine the amount of powder. Thanks for all of your suggestions. You are always a big help.

 

[jamesthomas]

Sounds like you've solved the problem. Maybe the patch was coming off uneven and messing up your groups.

 

[Leatherbark]

Try spit for lube. If your groups tighten you can thank me tomorrow. Seriously I believe the smaller balls are affected more by inconsistent slickness of the load. Friction plays an important part in this game. The Dutch Shoultz system makes the friction equal with each shot thus increasing accuracy. I do not do the dry patch system but have found that any load that uses a grease lube will shoot better with spit lube or a water based lube with just a little oil (ballistol)and just damp not sloppy. If you are adamant about using a grease patch apply it sparingly to where the patch is lightly greased so the patch friction against the bore will be more consistant with each shot. Assuming you are swabbing between shots for consistency. You'll get it together soon

Good Luck

Bob

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like you've solved the problem. Maybe the patch was coming off uneven and messing up your groups.

That doesn't happen. The patch opens and falls back from the ball as soon as it clears the muzzle. Lots if photos of this have been published. And, I have watched tests shooting off the bench with different amounts of patching. Some quite excessive. Not a factor.

 

[Semisane]

Just curious Rifleman, were those tests with very small calibers like a .32? Though gut feelings are often wrong, my gut tells me that if patch overlap is going to affect the shot, it would be more likely with those light balls.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Just curious Rifleman, were those tests with very small calibers like a .32? Though gut feelings are often wrong, my gut tells me that if patch overlap is going to affect the shot, it would be more likely with those light balls.

Don't recall calibers involved. But my gut is smarter than yer gut and it says caliber is not a factor. :wink: :v

 

[Semisane]

Your gut may be smarter, but I'll bet mine is BIGGER. :wink: