36 or 44 best centerfire upgrade

[Cadmandu]

Hi All and Merry Christmas

Im new to Black powder and cap and ball. Im interested in a Pietta remington 1858 new model army or the 44 cal version.
Which size 36 to 38 spl or 44 to 45 lc is a better fit to the barrel bore dia.
Im interested in buying the center fire cylinder.

thanks

 

[cynthialee]

welcome to the forum

Never had one.

Good luck in your endeavors to find your answers.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I think you’re going to get your hand slapped. This is a site for muzzleloaders. Ya, they get converted but try the forum at

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Apples and baboons.
38 special is .357. Round ball is .035. 44 is .430, 45 COLT is .454.
Nuff said

If you want 45Colt then buy an Peace Maker Colt

 

[Cadmandu]

Thanks I thought muzzle loaders shot revolvers as well.
So the 36 cal has a closer fit, ball dia vs 38 split round

 

[Grenadier1758]

36 caliber revolver is 0.380" ball and a 44 caliber is 0.454".

 

[necchi]

Which size,,,,is a better fit to the barrel bore dia.

Honestly? There is no coloration to be found in regards to that question. There are many bullet type variations available to each caliber.
So experimentation with different projectiles within an individual gun is needed. One will be a good fit for the 38, another will be a good fit for the 45.
Hint; one is smaller that the other.
As you do more research, you'll find that recommended loads for either are much lighter then modern "over the counter" ammo.

 

[user 48702]

Apples and baboons.
38 special is .357. Round ball is .035. 44 is .430, 45 COLT is .454.
Nuff said

If you want 45Colt then buy an Peace Maker Colt

You need to recheck your specs, even though not to be discussed here, I am a former dealer for Kirst Cylinders and .36 and .44 C&B can be converted to a .38 and .45 Colt respectively. Grenadier1758 is correct, a 36 caliber revolver is 0.380" ball and a 44 caliber is 0.454". You have to use a hollow base .38 (.357) bullet for the .36 caliber C&B.

 

[J2shortt]

If yours is the brass framed version its well known that a conversion cylinder will warp/bend your gun frame. Considering the details of your question I would stick with cap & ball for awhile until you get some experience under your belt.... The conversion cylinders I believe only come in one cartridge caliber. I could be wrong too....<shrugs>

 

[user 48702]

If yours is the brass framed version its well known that a conversion cylinder will warp/bend your gun frame. Considering the details of your question I would stick with cap & ball for awhile until you get some experience under your belt.... The conversion cylinders I believe only come in one cartridge caliber. I could be wrong too....<shrugs>

The conversion cylinders are revolver specific, just do a search, i.e. there is one chambered for either .45 Colt, or .45 acp for the .44 C&B, .38 spec for the .36 C&B, and .32 for the .31 C&B revolvers. There is even a .22 lr conversion unit. As I said, I used to be a dealer, actually one of the first, right after Walt Kirst began building them.

 

[J2shortt]

The conversion cylinders are revolver specific, just do a search, i.e. there is one chambered for either .45 Colt, or .45 acp for the .44 C&B, .38 spec for the .36 C&B, and .32 for the .31 C&B revolvers. There is even a .22 lr conversion unit. As I said, I used to be a dealer, actually one of the first, right after Walt Kirst began building them.

I did not know that. thanks for the info

 

[Cadmandu]

Thanks gunny I want a Pietta 36 new army so do I have to buy a conversion cylinder from them only

 

[Cadmandu]

This is alot of great info for us beginners all is going in my notebook. I see that some guys use a .451 ball instead of a .454 is the tighter ball safer and more accurate. Safer from chain firing. Does a treated wad cause any inaccurate firing

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This is alot of great info for us beginners all is going in my notebook. I see that some guys use a .451 ball instead of a .454 is the tighter ball safer and more accurate. Safer from chain firing. Does a treated wad cause any inaccurate firing

So a wad between the round ball and the powder that is "treated" should not cause an accuracy problem, but a lot of guys don't like them because unlike when using a conical bullet, a wad between the powder and ball when treated might on a hot day, contaminate the powder. Personally I've always used a plain, felt wad between the ball and the powder. Using .451 instead of .454 on my brass framed Pietta revolvers, no chain fires, no stressing the frame, so no worries.

Conversion cylinders are nice; I own one, but they are not discussed on the forum.

LD

 

[Notchy Bob]

People who shoot muzzleloaders think of bore diameter as land-to-land. Those who favor suppository arms think of bore diameter as bottom-of-groove to bottom-of-groove. The old .44 caliber cap and ball revolvers had a land-to-land diameter of approximately .440", with grooves around .006"- .007" deep, so groove-to-groove diameter would be about .452"- .454". So, with a cartridge conversion cylinder, your cap and ball .44 becomes a .45.

Notchy Bob

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Thanks gunny I want a Pietta 36 new army so do I have to buy a conversion cylinder from them only

Several aftermarket conversion cylinders are available. They are model specific. Howell & Taylor are two I know of. The 38 Short Colt is the only round I found that had soft enough lead to obturate & fill the rifling of the larger bore on a 36 cal C&B revolver. Accuracy was as good or better than the round balls with BP. 38 Special & Long Colts would tumble. My cylinder is actually for the Long/Short Colt, but the 38 Special cylinder will fire them as well. I wouldn't recommend you shoot a 38 Special round in any C&B revolver unless it was a reduced handload. The 44 C&B to a 45 cartridge is an easier fit but only shoot rounds under 700 fps as recommended. Good Luck!

 

[johnfrommd]

Apples and baboons.
38 special is .357. Round ball is .035. 44 is .430, 45 COLT is .454.
Nuff said

If you want 45Colt then buy an Peace Maker Colt

Round balls for .36 cal pistols are .375 and .380.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Apples and baboons.
38 special is .357. Round ball is .035. 44 is .430, 45 COLT is .454.
Nuff said

If you want 45Colt then buy an Peace Maker Colt

Totally incorrect information! Nuff said.

 

[Bighorserider]

Duelist 1954 on you tube has really good videos on this. I strongly recommend watching them before buying a gun. He's also on this forum, but I don't remember his handle.

 

[William Lincoln]

Try the revolver as it is before you decide to do that. Properly loaded
you can get 1000 fps out of the box with the right loads. That puts
them on par with the conversions. You have plenty of power with
your BP Cylinder. Master that and the other is not a necessary.