.38 caliber (.375 patched ball) rifle?

[sharps54]

Anyone know of a source for a rifle barrel that can use a patched .375 ball? The idea is to use the same balls as a .36 caliber revolver. I know I could probably use a really thick patch in a .40 in a pinch but I was looking for something designed to do this.

I'm pretty sure it would be out of my price range but does anyone still do custom caliber muzzleloading barrels or rebore existing barrels? I would think you might be able to rebore a .36 to .38.

Probably just a stupid idea on my part but I am curious, you would think someone would have wanted to use the same balls in thier revolvers and rifles but you don't see .38 (or .46 or .47 for that matter) rifles, any idea why not?

 

[roundball]

I'm pretty sure it would be out of my price range but does anyone still do custom caliber muzzleloading barrels or rebore existing barrels? I would think you might be able to rebore a .36 to .38.

Check with Ed Rayl in Gassaway, West VA...he de-breeched, then cut .012" x 1:72" rifling, then re-breeched a GM .62cal smoothbore barrel of mine and it only cost $65...you might be surprised

W. E. Rayl, Inc.
18 Otter Lane
Gassaway, West VA, 26624
304-364-8269

 

[sharps54]

Roundball,
I might be suprised at that! :bow:
Thanks, I'll get in touch with him.
sharps54

 

[gmww]

Also PM John Taylor a member here. See what he might charge. :thumbsup:

 

[Mountainman56]

That's a very good idea. I have a couple .36 revolvers and I'm thinking of building a .40 rifle next winter. Something that would shoot the same balls would be a good idea.

Kinda like why do I have to carry 2 sizes when I'm shooting my .45 rifle and my .44 b&c revolver? :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Remember that the rifle shoots a Patched Round Ball, while the revolver shoots bare balls that are swaged down to the throat in each chamber. To use a .375 Caliber RB in a rifle, you would need to have a .385, .39 or .395 caliber rifle, NO?

 

[sharps54]

Remember that the rifle shoots a Patched Round Ball, while the revolver shoots bare balls that are swaged down to the throat in each chamber. To use a .375 Caliber RB in a rifle, you would need to have a .385, .39 or .395 caliber rifle, NO?

Yes sir, I believe so. I was guessing at the "38" and "46" calibers. I have contacted John Taylor from this site and this project may actually happen. I will leave it up to him to decide what bore and groove diameters to use but he has asked what twist I would like. From a previous post you have made I gather the optimum ROT for the .375 patched ball would be about 46.2 to 47.4 and the ROT for the patched .451 balls would be 55.32 to 56.52, is that correct? I haven't asked Mr. Taylor what twists he can do but it looks like the "Navy" version will be 1/48 and the "Army" will be either 1/55 or 1/60. Are those correct or should I look for a different twist for round ball use?

Is there an optimum barrel length for these calibers, or at least for .40 and .45 the closest standard calibers to them? I will probably let John Taylor rebore my H&A .45 barrel to use the patched .451 balls but I will be buying a new or used barrel for the .375 patched balls.

Thanks in advance.
sharps54

 

[CoyoteJoe]

There was one .38 caliber rifle imported years ago called "the Plainsman", really a pretty nice half-stock Kentucky style, and .375" balls were the proper size. I never understood why .38 wasn't popular as lots of .36 caliber revolvers were sold, it just seemed obvious. But then we might also ask why no one builds a .46 caliber rifle to take the popular .451" and .454" revolver balls.
But the real question is why no manufacturer is interested in hearing what consumers want.

 

[RedFeather]

I had always wanted one of those Plainsman rifles in .38 until I saw one in .45. Not too terrible well finished and the metalwork left a lot to be desired. I don't think I would pass on one in nice condition but I wouldn't pay the same price as for a current model Pedersoli like their Kentucky rifle.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you can go with a standard 1:48 ROT for that gun. Its certainly close enough, if you are making a ball gun. If you intend to shoot conicals, its a different matter.

As to barrel length, its up to you. It has to be at least 16.5 inches in most states to be legal, and depending on how wide across the flats you want it to be, the length will be determined by the best sight radius for you to use, and how heavy you want the gun to be. I think any barrel length from 32-38 inches will work well. The longer barrel will allow you to shoot more powder, efficiently, for higher velocities. Just remember that the ball is going to weigh only about 80 grains, which is not going to give you a lot of range in any kind of wind. Out to 50 yards, it will be smoking, and should be as accurate as any .36, or .40 caliber gun. Over 50 yards, any wind is going to give you fit, and velocity drops off rather quickly. YOu might consider making a conical bullet rifle in that caliber, as that would allow you to have much better accuracy at longer ranges, for shooting varmints, and in some states, deer.

 

[sharps54]

Mr. Vallandigham,
Thank you for the response. I do think I want to stay with round balls otherwise I am getting away from the "spirit" of the project as silly as that may sound. Hunting wise I wouldn't use the .375 balls for anything but small game, the larger "Army" version using .451 balls should be in the same catagory as any standard .45 caliber muzzleloader using round ball, under 50 yards it should be fine for deer.

I have a T/C Renegade for big game hunting, these are more concept pieces then anything. I guess that's what happens when you have too much time on your hands!

Thanks again for the suggestions. If you have any ideas on the heavier version using .451 patched balls I would love to hear them. Since I already have a suitable barrel (from my .45 H&A Underhammer) it is likely to be build first. I am thinking a 1/60 twist.

sharps54

 

[bob308]

for a .45- .47 you would want a 1-50 or 52 twist.

for a .38-.40 1-48 works good. in my hoyt .40 barrel with 1-48 i have used .38-40 bullets cast from pure lead and started with a false muzzle they work great give more weight then a round ball. i want to try some out of a .40-82 mold i have just to see if they will work.

 

[8905c]

sharps54 -

Ed Rayl makes new barrels in .38 cal. I have one on a Southern Mtn. rifle. I love it! Excellent shooter with a 1:48 twist. I am not sure why, but with a variety of different loads, the point of impact doesn't seem to change with this rifle.
As a bonus, Ed is a great guy to deal with.
Good Luck - 8905c

 

[Leatherbark]

Richland Arms made them there "Plainsman" rifles........................Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

My brother is begining to build a new gun with a fast twist .45 caliber barrel ( .458) with a .450 land diameter, and .004 groove depth. He intends to shoot conicals in this 1:22 ROT barrel, that is only 26 inches long. I think he is thinking about using some light, 250 grain bullets in the gun. If you use the Greenhill formula, the barrel will stabilize a much heavier bullet, that can be as long as 1.4 inches. He is limited by the length of the barrel to burning only 47 grains of powder, so he is not looking to make this a long range gun, but rather, and short-barreled, short range gun. Certainly, it will kill a deer out to 100 yards with that 250 grain bullet. His friend completed a .40 caliber rifle with a 1:16" twist. At 100 yds, he was firing 200 + grain bullets into one hole with it, with very reasonable recoil.

 

[Runner]

I am going the other way. My 36 shoots 000 buckshot too well to want to go to a bigger barrel and pay five or six times as much for the balls. I am looking for a barrel in the .340 range that can use the 000 buckshot also. Anybody have a source for a barrel midway between the 36 and the 31?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I think Pedersoli built them and Replica Arms was the importer--at least according to the 1971 edition of the Gun Digest.

 

[Birddog6]

Jim Goodoien makes a .38 cal barrel, I have 2 rifles here with them in TN rifles(RH & LH), they both shoot a .375 patched round ball. Extremely accurate barrels, both shot 1/2" groups first time ever shot with 40 grains of 3F goex, .015 Oxjoke patch & Lehigh Lube. Jims barrels are all match grade barrels & hand lapped ready for serious shooting when ya get them. I have one 38 cal. barrel left that I am going to put into a curly cherry stocked TN rifle.

Now the barrels are just barrels, not "drop-in" barrels for a particular rifle, so if you want it to fit something, you would have to have someone make it into what you want. Also they are not cheap, running $250 or more if you can still get them. TOW used to sell them, don't know if they still have any or not as I heard Jim was retiring, but don't know this for fact. EVERY Goodoien barrel I have ever seen shoot was deadly accurate..... :wink:

 

[sharps54]

Thanks for all the responses so far! It looks like I may be able to get a new 38 caliber barrel which is great news, it seemed kind of silly to buy a new barrel and have it rebored.... I'm not rich but I understand you get what you pay for so I don't mind paying for quality. I always figured the 38 would be a newly built rifle so it wouldn't be cheap.

If there is enough room to rebore a 45 to take .451 patched balls (I don't know if the grooves will be too deep to do this or not) then I will see about having John Taylor rebore my Underhammer to match the 1860 Army. Otherwise that too may be a one off custom project.

 

[fho]

I got a 38 caliber barrel off of Ed Rayl, so I know he makes a 38 caliber barrel.
Olie