3f loadf in large bore

Hope this isn't a repetition for you guys but I picked up a Pedersoli 69 Charleville awhile back and have begun shooting it quite regulatly now. I always used 3f in my small to medium caliber rifles and so have continued to use it in this as well. I know that pressure is greater in large bores as it's in direct relation to the area it's pressing against hence the term psi. What's the judgement out there from those that shoot large bore/caliber weapons. I'm usng 70 grains of 3f with a somewhat loose fitting .662 ball/.015 patch I wouldn't think there would be any problem. What say you noble gentelmen?

 

[Swampman]

I've used 90 grains of 3F in Brown Bess muskets for years with great results. I think you'll be fine.

 

[RiverRat]

I use 80grs of 3f in my .62cal fowler, also use 3f in my .58cal 1861 Springfield. In fact, I use 3f in all my ml's.

 

[musketman]

I'm usng 70 grains of 3f with a somewhat loose fitting .662 ball/.015 patch I wouldn't think there would be any problem. What say you noble gentelmen?

There is no real concern until you get up towards the maximum load for your gun, them caution must be used...

I believe that powder measurers are calibrated for FFg granulation, so if you, (for example) measure 100 grains of FFg, that same setting will give you 15% more powder when using FFFg, why? Because the FFFg grains are smaller and will pack in closer, thus giving more powder in the same volume of space...

 

[scroggwe]

Musketman, that is great info on the powder measures. I never knew they were calibrated for FFg. Thanks. I've always used 80 grains of FFg in my Short Land Bess. Never tried FFFg in my big bores.

 

[Swampman]

I guess im using 90 grains of 3f measured in a 2f measure then. It shoots flat and it's very easy to clean.

I've never heard that powder measures were calibrated for 2f. I would think it's like a measuring cup. A cup of sugar and a cup of flour are measured in the same measure.

I thought the 15% reduction for 3f was because it burns faster and creates more pressure.

I hope no one will be offended by my pondering this point.

 

[musketman]

I hope no one will be offended by my pondering this point.

Nope, no one is offended, besides, I could even be wrong, it has happened...:haha:

Again, the finer grains of the smaller powder will pack in tighter giving more powder in the same volume of space, if you have access to a scale and both types of power you could easily verify this...

Also, it's no real danger unless you are near or at maximum loads...

 

[ronrryan]

Boy, I am scared to argue with somebody who has eleven thousand posts....BUT, I think powder measures are a measure of volume. Fifty grains is fifty grains. The difference in PRESSSURE comes from the difference in burning rate etc found in the smaller grains, therefore to get the same velocity and the same pressure from a 2F load and a 3F load, the 2F load needs to have more volume, or conversely the 3F needs to have less volume. Not so? That is what I have read, and was taught, since taling up muzzleloading some fifteen years ago. God Bless all here, as we say in the Irish, Ron in Fla.

 

[Deadeye]

I just went into my shop and tried weighting 2F and 3F. With my measure set to 100 and this measure has the funnel cut off to cut the powder off even, 2F measured 97 grs. 3F measured 91.4
Logic says it should have been the other way.
Both were new cans of Goex and I measured it twice to be sure.

 

[LarryB]

You can take a cubic yard of 4 " rock and crush it to 1" rock and it will fill up more space. more holes between the rock. You can't pack it as tight as if you didn't break the rock in the first place. Ask any dump truck driver whitch weighs the most 10 yards of sand or 10 yards of 4 inch. I feel that podwer would be the same. Just my 2 cents worth

 

[musketman]

Boy, I am scared to argue with somebody who has eleven thousand posts....but

Don't let that stop you, I can still learn too... :haha:

 

[Stumpkiller]

"Tis better to curse at your neighbors wife than burn a camel in the darkness."

I just blew the dust off the old RCBS 5-10 beam scale and I found the following. Powder is from open cans but new this summer. Measures carded and average of three throws for each setting.

T/C adjustable measure set at 70, 80 and 90 from the calibrated" markings:

With 2F powder I got averages of 65.2, 74.0 and 83.9

With 3F powder I got averages of 64.2, 71.5 and 80.1 grains.


Short answer is that the measure is not calibrated very well for either! And, surprisingly, the 2F is slightly heavier for every volume compared to the 3F. :hmm:

Came out the same for two fixed measures I tested, too. :shocked2: Call Mythbusters!

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've heard, been told, read that when switching from 2F to 3F that you should back off 15% in either volume or weight. This must be due to the faster burning/higher pressures of 2F (as we've demonstrated it's not that much weight change for a given volume). I wonder if that's been tested? Anyone have a chronograph and some time?

 

[roundball]

I've heard, been told, read that when switching from 2F to 3F that you should back off 15% in either volume or weight. This must be due to the faster burning/higher pressures of 2F (as we've demonstrated it's not that much weight change for a given volume). I wonder if that's been tested? Anyone have a chronograph and some time?

I agree, volume is voume...I haven't tested the velocity differences via chronograph of 100grns 2F vs. 100grns 3F...but there's no question in my mind, from my personal range experiences that an equal charge of 3F has a much sharper recoil from the faster burn rate/sharper pressure spike than 2F.
I now have a a chronograph...hope to figure out how to use it and run some tests like these this summer...

 

[Runner]

In my 12 guage, 3f is punishing with any heavy loads. 2f is a lot more fun to shoot, provides almost the same velocity in the big tubes, and often patterns better too. Instead of the old way of everything here shooting 3f, I am going the other way. I hunt and shoot for fun. Getting pounded is not fun.

 

[ffffg]

all powder manufactured at different times have different burn rates.. (smokeless also) when the batch is done it is mixed with other batches so that 90 grains will shoot the same in one batch as in the other(original control batch).. that is to have the same power.. its my beliefe that 90 grains is 90 grains, 4f, 3f, 2f , 1f.. and its done by volumn.. this is not a problem with front stuffers, but each batch has to be reconned with when shot long range in cartriges.. not so much for eleveation but for accuracy, eleveation is adjusted for temperature daily... the powder is weighed (for accuracy sake) thus causing space problems for compression differences on lot to lot.. this is why cartrige shooters when they find a good batch for thier gun, they go nuts buying up all they can.. my opinion only and ive already been wrong three times today.. dave

 

[ffffg]

heres another opinion more in line with your question, where with it and 1.50 you can get a cup of coffee.. .. with a loose ball and 3f it will either bump up the ball and youl get such good groops that you can win the next championship in your region.. or it will blow the patch and youll have touble hitting a 5 gallon can at 50 yards with five rounds.. im guessing it will be the latter.. get some 1/2 inch cushion wads, get thicker patches(.020), and if that dont work get some bigger balls.. dave..

 

[musketman]

get some 1/2 inch cushion wads, get thicker patches(.020), and if that dont work get some bigger balls.. dave..

I was running .678 roundballs instead of the .662's through my .69 caliber musket with good results, perhaps that would help Squint as well to step up in size... :hmm:

 

[Deadeye]

I found this on another forum.
1cc=15.1 2F and 14.5 3F. This correlates very closely with what both Stumpy and I found. I have to admit I would have thought 3F weighted more.

 

[Black Hand]

70-80 FFFg in a .62 cal smoothbore. Cleaner burning and faster ignition. Haven't tried FFg.
Black Hand