.40 question

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LeadDownRange

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Ok I'm going start out by saying I have absolutely no muzzleloading experience I've never shot one and have only held two so here's my qeustion would it be fair to compare a forty to a rossi 410 single shot I ask because a 410 is the only gun that might come close to a forty In power that I have handled any and all advise would be greatly appreciated thanks
 
I'm new to this game too, but I rather doubt a .40 caliber muzzle loading rifle is comparable to a .410 shotgun. Or are you talking about a smoothbore?

-GB
 
Not really. The 410 is good deal more powerful than the .40 Muzzleloader.
The .40 muzzleloader is good deal more accurate than the 410 smooth bore.

Recoil wise, it's hard to compare centerfire with BP muzzleloaders but since some 410s tend to be on the light side as far as weight goes, I would say the 410's recoil would be closer to a .50 or .54 depending on load.

While the 410 is not the best round for deer sized game, the .40 is not the best or rather pretty poor for deer sized game.
 
LeadDownRange said:
"...so here's my qeustion would it be fair to compare a forty to a rossi 410 single shot..."

"...might come close to a forty In power..."
Projectile wise, the .40cal PRB and a little .410 slug are similar, as examples:

.40cal ball is .395" diameter, and weighs 92grns;

.410 slug is only an eyelash larger diameter and at 1/5oz weighs 87.5grns.
(slightly hollow base accounts for the difference even though larger diameter)

A .40cal PRB can be pushed faster than a factory .410 slug.
 
I'm really not sure what you are asking. :idunno: Comparing a modern .410 shotgun to a black powder muzzleloading .40 caliber rifle is sort of like comparing cats and dogs. :hmm: The .410 uses smokeless powder and shoots shot while the .40 caliber rifle uses black powder or one of the substitutes and shoots a patched round ball. Not knowing exactly what you are asking, I am going to make a stab and assume that you are asking about the relative recoil of each. They have a similar recoil but the .40 caliber rifle will, in most instances, have a slightly smaller recoil than the .410 simply because there is more mass being fired out of the muzzle of a .410 than there is out of the muzzle of a .40 caliber rifle. A .40 caliber rifle with a patched round ball and any reasonable load (from 40 to 60 grains of 3f black powder) can be handled comfortably by most any kid. Even a .45 caliber rifle with a patched round ball and a reasonable powder charge will not have a bad recoil. Until you get to the .50 caliber and larger with heavy loads, you don't get serious recoil. This answer assumes that you were asking about the relative recoil of these two guns. if your question concerned the relative killing power of the two, that's a horse of a different flavor. :hatsoff:
 
Thanks for the info this might be a dumb qeustion but would a 40 be able to accurately reach past 50 yards for target shooting the 410 I owned could not reach 50 yards even with a pretty high elevation also recoil is not a problem just wondering I would be able to do the same with a 40 that I was able to do with a 410 or more accurately are the limitations of the 40 simalar to that of a 410 with a short barrel length
 
welcome to the wonderful world of muzzle loading.

comparing the relative power of a centerfire gun to that of a muzzle loader is, in my opinion, a mistake: consider the example of the legislator (I believe it was from New York) who wanted to 'get control' of all these 'unregulated' fifty caliber guns that could bring down a jet aircraft with 'common sense gun control' ... he thought that my fifty caliber flint lock rifle would be capable of taking out a Dreamliner or an Airbus 300 ... well the day that I can do the damage with my flintlock that I can achieve with an M-2 machine gun, i'll sell that fellow a nice bridge in Brooklyn (right after I run the Zamboni in Hell)...

it's like comparing screwdrivers to dogs (by the way, my dog is smarter than your dog, and I don't care about your screwdrivers)
:wink:
different tool - different job...

you mention a .410 scattergun: if you want to do smoothbore, I would look at a 20 gauge or larger, if you want something which will do well for small game, I like the .40 caliber, but I would recommend that you look to a .50 or .54 for deer. If all you want to do is put holes in paper (and the occasional soda can), i'd go with a .40. the 'forty' is too small for deer, in my opinion.

remember that muzzle loaders in general and flintlocks in specific are not like center -fire guns - they have a learning curve and will require some tinkering and adjustment ... if possible, get up with someone who can show you the ins and outs, and don't hesitate to ask plenty of questions. there are a number of good books on the care and feeding of muzzle loading guns, and i'd also recommend Dutch Schoultz' method - -here's his link:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/


psst ... should we tell him that muzzle loading can be habit forming?


make good smoke!
 
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First of all, there is no such thing as a dumb question. We all started where you are and we all understand your need to ask many questions. We love to share our sport so when you have any question, fire away.

Yes, a .40 can be very accurate at distances of 50 yards or more. It is a popular caliber with many target shooters. As a hunting gun, it sort of falls between the cracks. It is a tiny bit big for small game such as squirrels or rabbits...(unless you shoot them in the head)...but it will work and it is a bit undersized for deer size game. However, it is a great round for punching paper and for such animals as coyotes, foxes, wolves, etc.

While the .40 can be quite accurate at 50 yards, like any muzzleloading rifle, you will need to spend the time to work up the load that your particular rifle likes. Each rifle has its likes and dislikes so you cannot take a load that is very accurate in someone else's .40 rifle and assume that it is the best load for your rifle. It just doesn't necessarily work that way.

Note to MSW: Let's keep the part about it being habit forming our little secret until he is hooked. :grin: Just give him a little time and he will be ours. Muaha ha ha ha ha. :haha:
 
I understand that comparing a centerfire to a Bp rifle is unfair but I've only shot a 22, 270, 30-30 12 gauge, 20 gauge and a 410 I figured the 410 would be the best one to compare to I probably won't go after deer but mainly small game like squirrel, rabbit, and the odd grouse with only head shots when did hunt with a 410 all of my shots where kept within 30 yards because the first deer I shot at was about 45 yards away and the slug landed ten feet from the deer so I figured the forty would be under powered for deer
 
Let me add to what MSW said about getting a copy of Dutch Schoults accuracy system. It is only $20 and you will never spend $20 in a better way as far as muzzleloading rifles are concerned. Order it.....now!! Then thoroughly read all of it. Once you have read it re-read it then follow his instructions to the letter. You do this and you will amaze yourself with how accurately you will have your rifle shooting. It is an investment in every rifle that you will ever own. All I ask is that when you have this treasury of information, and others ask how you were able to get your rifle to shoot so accurately, don't share the system with them, tell them to order their own system from Dutch. I don't think he has it copywrited but he does make a little income from selling it so give him a break and let others buy it from him.
 
Okay, I think I have a better handle on what you are asking. I think the best gun for your purposes would be a 20 ga. smoothbore rifle. They are really sweet and versatile guns. You can load them with shot for small game and birds or you can use a .54 cal. patched round ball for deer as long as you keep your shots under 100 yards. I specified a smoothbore rifle because it will have front and rear sights while a smoothbore fowler will have only a front sight like a shotgun.
 
I don't know what your budget is but this is an interesting looking deal. 16 ga. shotgun and a .38 cal. rifle in one. That would give you a .38 cal squirrel gun and a 16 ga bird gun plus you could load patched round balls in the 16 ga barrel for deer hunting. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/9792/cat/9

This is very interesting but I still favor the 20 ga, smoothbore rifle if you can find one. There are used ones are out there or you can buy a new one if you wish.
 
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Thanks for all the info i thought of getting a smooth bore but I would like a forty mainly for the reason that it won't use a lot of powder and lead compared to something bigger and still have enough power to take most of the game in my woods but also give me a challenge compared to a smooth bore pretty much same reason while I started hunting small game with a 22 compared to my shotgun also it will be several months before I get the rifle so I have time to change my mind I will probably get a bigger rifle for deer after I get comfortable with Bp rifles
 
The .40 is a great choice for a small game muzzleloader. Everything from squirrel and rabbit to turkey (if your state allows taking of turkey with a rifle) and coyotes. The .40 is also a fun gun for range and offhand practice.
 
Get a .45 this way you can take anything up to small bears -- that is -- IF your state allows .45 cal for small game. The cost for ball and powder is a small increase from the .40.
 
LeadDownRange said:
Thanks for the info this might be a dumb qeustion but would a 40 be able to accurately reach past 50 yards for target shooting
Oh gosh yes...in fact the .40cal rifle is an often preferred caliber for target shooting and competition...as well as small game...a very accurate caliber.
 
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The 45 might be a good choice for me considering their are black bear out here and I could find one locally to me
 
LeadDownRange said:
"...I probably won't go after deer but mainly small game like squirrel, rabbit, and the odd grouse with only head shots..."

Tailor made for Squirrels with .40cal patched round ball...and for the occasional deer there's even a .40cal x 200grn REAL conical to be had:



 
LDR,
I have a nice custom .40 Southern Mountain rifle, I also have a nice custom .54 Hawken. I've never hunted bears, so I can't say much except, I don't think I'd hunt one with a .40 or .45. I kind of have reservations about hunting the small central Texas whitetails with the .40.
I've read stories about Danial Boone shooting bears and for some reason I seem to remember it was with a pretty small caliber like a .40, maybe .45, but I still don't think I'd do it. You'll hear about shot placement, range etc., which is all fine, but a Black Bear is a pretty big and tough animal and that .40cal ball or conical is a pretty small pill.
My advice, and it's only my opinion, but I'd get the .40, shoot it, hunt small game and then when you really get familiar with shooting traditional muzzle loaders, then maybe save up and invest in a larger caliber for deer and larger game. Trust me, you'll want more than one rifle anyway.

Wish you the best of luck.

Snakebite
 
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