44 Comparison

[Many Klatch]

I was at the shooting range the other day shooting my .44 Remington New Army. Next to me was a fellow spraying .40 S&W brass all over the place. That got me to wondering.

I am shooting a .454 round ball over 25 or 30 grains of 3F. How does that compare with modern pistol rounds? What currently available round would it be most equivalent to?

I would just like to know so the next time someone asks about how powerful those old timey guns are that I can give him a factual answer.

Many Klatch

 

[cynthialee]

IDK the real answer, but my pa told me that the .44's of yesteryear are about the same as a .38 special of today in killing power.
I really have no clue if that is right or not.

 

[swathdiver]

The Cap and Ball .44-100 has killed far more people than the .40 S&W. A typical .40 S&W round will expand to .66 inches and the .44-100, while I have not measured, seems about the same after hitting steel plate. They're doing 1000fps and 400ftlbs energy with a 180 grain bullet. Our 141gr round ball is about 20-25% slower but remember the damage soft lead produces as it nearly dumps all of its energy at once.

They both get the job done differently.

 

[rodwha]

In Duelist's video using Goex and Triple 7 with RB and other projectiles he showed that with 40 grns of 3F Goex and a RB gave him 812 fps for 217 ft/lbs. With 33 grns of 3F Triple 7 and that same RB he got 1062 fps and 371 ft/lbs.

With a 225 grn conical and 35 grns of Goex he got 805 fps and 324 ft/lbs, and with 30 grns of T7 he got 968 fps and 469 ft/lbs.

 

[poordevil]

About 1996-98 Ed Sanow did an article in Handguns Magazine (I believe) where he used the bullet gel and shot the various .31 through 44 cal cap and ball pistols. I have looked for the article but can not find it on the net. If you can, you will be surprised how close to modern rounds they are and how really well armed the old timer were.

p

 

[swathdiver]

Handguns, February 1998

Ed Sanow. He chronographed the round ball from an 1860 Colt at 935 fps - penetrated 19.8 inches of gelatin, recovered diameter 0.48 inches, stretch cavity 38.8 cubic inches.

Those numbers are comparable to some 9mm and .357 hollowpoints.

Cap and Ball Ballistics
By Ed Sanow
Handguns February 1998

Cap and Ball Wound Ballistics

Calibre
Firearm
Bullet
FFFg
Velocity
Energy
1 Shot Stop

.31 Pocket
Baby Dragoon
46gr RB
11gr
821 fps
69 ft lb
30%

.36 Navy
Colt 1851 Navy
70gr RB
22gr
1038 fps
189 ft lb
59%

.44 Army
1861 New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

.44 Walker
1847 Walker
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

.44 Calibre RB Ballistics

0.44
1860 Sheriff
141gr RB
30gr
756 fps
179 ft lb
59%

0.44
1861 New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

0.44
Ruger Old Army
141gr RB
40gr
1031 fps
333 ft lb
79%

0.44
1848 Dragoon
141gr RB
50gr
1181 fps
437 ft lb
85%

0.44
1847 Walker
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

Cap and Ball versus Modern Cartridges

.31 Pocket
Baby Dragoon
46gr RB
11gr
821 fps
69 ft lb
30%

.22LR
Revolver
37gr LHP
FL
975 fps
78 ft lb
29%

.36 Navy
Colt 1851 Navy
70gr RB
22gr
1038 fps
189 ft lb
59%

9mm S
Semi Auto Pistol
88gr JHP
FL
1000 fps
189 ft lb
59%

.44 Army
New Army
141gr RB
35gr
935 fps
274 ft lb
75%

.44 Spl
Revolver
200gr LHP
FL
810 fps
292 ft lb
73%

.44 Walker
Walker 1847
141gr RB
60gr
1287 fps
519 ft lb
87%

.41 Mag
Revolver
175gr JHP
FL
1250 fps
608 ft lb
89%


When he tried .44 conicals, he got lower muzzle velocities and deeper penetration... in his words, "the round ball turned this energy into tissue damage and massive disruption. The conical bullets turned the same energy into extremely deep penetration."

 

[Many Klatch]

So I can truthfully say that the .44 Remington with 35 grains of 3F packs more ft lbs of smackability than a 9MM and slightly less than a .44 Special.

I wonder if that means that it should be about the same as a factory loaded .45 Long Colt.

Many Klatch

 

[tpelle]

When he tried .44 conicals, he got lower muzzle velocities and deeper penetration... in his words, "the round ball turned this energy into tissue damage and massive disruption. The conical bullets turned the same energy into extremely deep penetration."

Just last night I was reading my copy of Elmer Keith's "Sixguns". In a chapter of this book, he related the experience of two Civil War veterans, one Union and one Confederate, that he personally knew. Both confirmed the same thing - that the round ball was a better manstopper than was the conical bullet packaged in their paper cartridges. However, when foraging and using the pistol to kill beef or other animals, the conical bullet was better, as it had the penetration to reach the vitals, especially penetrating the skulls of beef to reach the brain.

Both, by the way, were talking about the 1851 Navy.

 

[hanshi]

This is extremely interesting information and and sounds like what I would have thought. As in modern guns there are many variables. Any two barrels are not exactly alike; one can give higher velocity while its twin gives much lower speeds. This not only applies to modern rounds but probably more so to c&b revolvers. Shorter barrels will generally produce lower velocities than, say, standard 8" tubes. But regardless of the speeds attainable with c&b revolvers, they are proven manstoppers; go back and ask Hickock about his .36 Navies.

 

[SteveFink]

I think the 9mm S listing is really .380ACP as that bullet weight isnt common at all in 9mm parabellum loads

 

[George T.]

Thank's for the post as I have really enjoyed reading the posted information! Geo. T.

 

[Zonie]

I agree. It is the 9mm Short (or 9mm Kurz) which we call a .380 ACP.