#5 or #6 Shot for .56 Smoothbore?

[luieb45]

I'm getting a T/C .56 Smoothbore barrel for my dad's renegade that I'm buying. The barrel is 26" long with a cylinder bore. I'm planning on hunting rabbit and squirrel with the gun. I'm buying it from a member here who told me a lot about it and the load he used to use but that was with #6 shot but I might use #5 shot in it because that's the shot size I used to use when I did hunt rabbits with a modern shotgun. He used 50 grains of 2f blackpowder, 4 thin cards over the powder, 60 grains of shot measured from a powder measure with an overshot card. What load could I use with #5 shot? Or should I just stick with #6 shot? Thanks.

 

[majg1234]

same load should work with #5 or #6 shot i've got the same outfit but go a little heavier on powder and shot,works good with #6 on squirrels

 

[ny griz]

:hmm:You can always mix it,i've done that before.Griz

 

[Oldnamvet]

Rabbits won't know the difference either way. They will be just as dead. For pheasants I like to use #5 shot. Just a little extra penetration.

 

[roundball]

If I step to the next larger size pellet, I step up to the next 1/8oz increment of shot charge to try and keep a similar pellet count...especially in an open cylinder bore.

Particularly in the thick strong TC and GM 1" barrels, you have a lot of flexibility in powder and shot charge sizes

 

[August West]

Rabbits are pretty easy to kill so I usually use 7 1/2s for squirrels I bump it up to 6s. Chris

 

[roundball]

If I step to the next larger size pellet, I step up to the next 1/8oz increment of shot charge to try and keep a similar pellet count...especially in an open cylinder bore.

Particularly in the thick strong TC and GM 1" barrels, you have a lot of flexibility in powder and shot charge sizes

 

[BrownBear]

I'm with you on the #5's for rabbits, and yeah, I'd bump the shot charge 1/8 oz as Roundball recommends, but no other change in components.

I shot snowshoe hares for over 20 years with a muzzleloading shotgun, and we're talking a whole LOT of rabbits. We raised beagles, and there is no closed season or limit on snowshoe hares.

Over the course of the years I tried just about every shot size known to man, and at BP velocities I found that most times #6 left a few pellets behind in the eating meat, while I almost never saw a #5 or larger left behind. I actually used more #4 because I was using a 12 gauge and actually wanted a few less pellets in the pattern.

I'm working the kinks out with that 62 cal barrel right now, and I haven't even popped a cap on a load of #6's. No #4's either, for that matter. It's all been #5's for the right combo of full penetration along with a little more shot than #4's in the smaller bore.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

With a short barreled cylinder bore gun shooting one ounce of shot the limiting factor will be pattern density. Smaller shot size will give you more pellets in the pattern, 225 #6 shot versus 170 #5 shot. I wouldn't rule out 7 1/2's at 350 per ounce. Cottontails aren't hard to kill and it seems to me that multiple hits with smaller shot kill more cleanly than 2 or 3 hits with large shot. I have a .56 Renegade but haven't had time to try it out as yet.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I go along with most of the posts above. Rabbits take less killing but jink better, so I use #6 for a better chance of multiple hits.

Evil Skwerls take a lot more killing (at least our gray squirrels vs. the cottontail bunnies hereabouts). I use #5 for the squirrels.

I've never tried pheasant with a m/l, but from my centerfire s/g days I'd go with #5 as the feathers can absorb a lot of the energy from #6. I'm still trying to decide with ruffed grouse. It seems by the time I get set they're on the edge of my range and the #5 have the advantage . . . if any hit.

When I just go out for a walk and it can be squirrel, grouse or bunny I have lately been loaded with #5, so I guess that is the answer. ;-)

 

[roundball]

"...loaded with #5..."

During the past few years I've experimented with different combinations of shot pellet size, penetration tests, shot charge size, and different chokes, settling into the following:

#9s - skeet targets - Cylinder Bore

#8s - trap targets - Light modified or Full

#7.5s - doves - Light Modified

#7s - turkey heads - Light modified

#6s - turkey heads - Full

#5s - squirrels - Cylinder, Light modified or Full

#5s - crows - Light modified

 

[luieb45]

The T/C manual said that they recommended 80 grains of 2ffg powder, a special T/C wad, 60 grains of #6 shot measured out of the powder measure, and another one of those special T/C wads over the shot. They said don't use this load unless you use the T/C wads. Would this load be safe?

 

[jethro224]

If it wasn't VERY safe T/C would never put it in their manual. Liabilities ya know...

It's a very thick walled smoothbore and will handle basically any load you might shoot out of a .54 rifle barrel.
In my experience it will throw a much tighter pattern with less powder. I have never tried, or even seen, the special T/C wads tho.

 

[luieb45]

I wasn't worried about 7 1/2s killing rabbits but don't want all that damaged meat like I used to get when I rabbit hunted with 7/8 oz. shot out of my 20 gauge. Also I have another question about the cards. I read on an article about muzzleloading shotguns that wads are better than cards because cards are fragile and break and bend easily in the gun. Has anyone here had this?

 

[BrownBear]

I don't recall reading the same article, so I can't comment. I will say that in 62 caliber I've had the best performance with a .125" thick Type A card between the shot and powder, and a single overshot-card over the shot.

The Type A's are unlubed, so I pour olive oil over them, drain them, then let them sit overnight to soak up the excess. I get no fouling, and I've seen no evidence that they "blow through" the pattern. I've had no problem with that with thick Type C fiber wads in larger gauges, but since that caution rattled around so much on these pages I decided to try the Type A's first in the 62. No regrets.

 

[August West]

With a cylinder bore gun unless the rabbit is really close I don't think you'll have any problem tearing them up with 7.5s. I tried one piece modern wads for my MLers, I have 4 ML shotguns and have not had the wads work any better than card wads in any of them, plus They leave plastic in your barrel. When I get home I am going to experiment with shotcups, both paper and cloth, several people on here have talked about the difference they make in your patterns. Chris

 

[Britsmoothy]

I wasn't worried about 7 1/2s killing rabbits but don't want all that damaged meat like I used to get when I rabbit hunted with 7/8 oz. shot out of my 20 gauge. Also I have another question about the cards. I read on an article about muzzleloading shotguns that wads are better than cards because cards are fragile and break and bend easily in the gun. Has anyone here had this?

Don't worry about the meat damage from a M/L shotgun friend, they don't tear up meat and splatter guts like modern high vel smokeless shells do.

If I gets a sitting rabbit close up I aim just off his head some with shot and try and get him with the pattern skirt. Works :thumbsup:

Brits.

 

[roundball]

I am going to experiment with shotcups, both paper and cloth

Food for thought having gone through this sort of experimenting with paper shot cups in .20 & .28ga smoothbores.

At least in my experience, while it wasn't a common occurance, I could not permanently eliminate the occasional "slug effect" where the paper shot cup didn't open and the entire charge sailed through the target like a slug...maybe some have but I was never able to. So while the paper shot cups did tighten patterns some, I finally decided as hard as it was to get a Tom turkey's small head in range during turkey season, I didn't want the risk of getting the slug effect at that very moment and miss the rare opportunity.

Plus, I learned, when adding up all the costs of the range trips for pattern testing...the high cost of lead, plus the cost of powder, wads, cards, plus the high cost of gasoline making all the range trips to do all that shooting...I spent more money than it costs to get a barrel Jug Choked and be done with it...and not have all the aggravation of fooling with home made shot cups.
Had GM .20ga barrels Jug Choked and performance is outstanding...just powder, wad, shot, and card.

Then when I decided to have a .62cal smoothbore Virginia built, I bought a Rice smoothbore barrel and sent it to Caywood the have their Full Jug Choke installed, before sending the barrel on to the builder...it works great AND shoots PRBs for deer hunting great as well.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I wasn't worried about 7 1/2s killing rabbits but don't want all that damaged meat like I used to get when I rabbit hunted with 7/8 oz. shot out of my 20 gauge. Also I have another question about the cards. I read on an article about muzzleloading shotguns that wads are better than cards because cards are fragile and break and bend easily in the gun. Has anyone here had this?

Your modern 20 gauge is probably a modified or full choke and will indeed put a lot of pellets on target at normal bunny ranges of 25 yards or less. A cylinder bore is a whole nuther story. You will need to fire some patterns on paper, then you will see what I mean about pattern density being the limiting factor. Fire a pattern from your 20 ga. for comparison and notice the difference. Your local builders supply will likely have some large sheets of cardboard such as aluminum storm doors come packaged in. Those make excellent pattern boards. You also may find some rolls of paper at least 36" wide, 40" is better. But even if you just hang some sheets of newspaper on a barb wire fence you can get a good idea of the over all spread and a rough idea of the density, just looking for holes in the pattern that a rabbit could slip through. You will need a calm, windless day for pattern testing as those big sheets of paper or cardboard are impossible to hang if the wind is blowing. GOOD HUNTING

 

[BrownBear]

Don't worry about the meat damage from a M/L shotgun friend, they don't tear up meat and splatter guts like modern high vel smokeless shells do.

If I gets a sitting rabbit close up I aim just off his head some with shot and try and get him with the pattern skirt. Works :thumbsup:

Brits.

I agree that the damage is less severe. But I'll return to my recommendation of 5's as a minimum for larger rabbits like snowshoe hare (comparable to jackrabbits or perhaps Belgians). The shot also don't seem to penetrate as well, so shot smaller than #5 are more prone to staying behind to contribute to your dentist's retirement fund if you don't find them all and dig them out. Depending on the size of the cottontail in your area, a load of #6's might be just fine in the penetration department.


While I've always called it a "fringe" rather than a skirt, the edge of the pattern is real important when shooting rabbits for food. I started doing it with modern guns and continued when making the move to a muzzleloader, but my pattern testing is as much about learning the edge of the pattern at different ranges as about pattern density. If your edge is clean enough and you pay attention, you can catch the head or front of the rabbit in your pattern and not impact the loins and rear quarters at all. Nice!