50 cal hunting load questions

[elrotundamundo]

I have a TC Renegade Hunter 50 cal that I finally got an accurate load worked up for. 60 gr. FFg, .490 Hornady round ball with .015 lubed TC patch over a felt wad. It shoots 2", 3 shot groups at 100 yards. Lyman BP manual says the muzzle velocity is 1368 and it is going 922 F.P.S. at 100 yards. I am thinking this is good for deer broadside or quartering at 100 yards. Anyone have any input?

I also plan to hunt elk, but will either develop a stronger PRB load or a MaxiBall load as it would seem to me the 60 gr load might be a bit weak for elk.

I have read that the Maxi depends on pressure to obturate the rear bands to fill the rifling. If so, would FFFg be better than FFg because of a sharper pressure spike? Also, I have a Maxiball mold. Would straight wheel weights be too hard? Do I need pure lead?

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I believe 60 gr. is a bit light at any range, especially for a big animal like elk. With patched round ball a charge more like 120 gr. would be more appropriate.
If you can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards (measured) you are a great shooter and that rifle is target quality accurate.
I have never shot an elk. Let others chime in about the ethics of shooting an elk at a range like that.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

If so, would FFFg be better than FFg because of a sharper pressure spike?

Maybe too much so. The greater mass of the Maxiball will, in itself, give greater pressure. FFg should be fine.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The patched ball with 60 grains is an adequate deer load but 100 yards would be stretching it.
I've taken elk with a .50 caliber ball over 80 grains of 3f but I feel that is a minimal load for elk, I'd prefer a larger caliber ball or a conical bullet. You have the Lyman book so you already know that your 60 grain load carries more energy at 50 yards than does a 120 grain load at 100 yards. The .50 caliber ball will be deadly on a broadside shot which hits no bone larger than a rib but if you make a shoulder hit at 100 yards I have my doubts that it would give sufficient penetration after breaking a large bone. I would have full confidence in a maxi-ball, of course with good placement. The maxi may carry not much more energy but there is no doubt 370 grains of lead will penetrate more than 170 grains of the same diameter.
To cast your own maxi's you will need pure lead. Wheel weights are way too hard for a bullet which is expected to "slug-up or obturate" to fill the grooves. The alloy bullet will also cast larger diameter than pure lead and thus would be very hard to start down the muzzle. I only shoot patched balls these days but many years ago I did extensive work with a T/C renegade and maxi-balls. I was shooting very heavy loads and I found that just a bit of tin added to the lead gave me much better accuracy with those loads but it was a bit of a tricky balance between "just enough or too much". Pure lead is best for loads under 100 grains of powder and that is certainly plenty.

 

[BadHorse]

I also plan to hunt elk, but will either develop a stronger PRB load or a MaxiBall load as it would seem to me the 60 gr load might be a bit weak for elk.

i would work up a heavier load in the 90-110 gr range.

I have read that the Maxi depends on pressure to obturate the rear bands to fill the rifling. If so, would FFFg be better than FFg because of a sharper pressure spike? Also, I have a Maxiball mold. Would straight wheel weights be too hard? Do I need pure lead?

i would use the fffg, after all you get 50-70 extra fps with it over the ffg. all i use is fffg in my 50's and 54's. as far as the wheel weights are concerned, yes the alloy is to hard for maxi's. but works great for PRB's. dont underestimate what the PRB will do for you hunting. somewhere here a while back i posted picks of tests Arizona fish and game did with the 50 cal PRB. very impressive it was.

 

[BadHorse]

ok, this may irritate a few of our self professed experts. but the 50 cal with a fair hunting load will drop almost anything in north America with incredible ease. im talking 100 gr of fffg behing a 490 prb. i personally have gotten deer, no big deal. however the wild boar and black bear were a much bigger deal. i truly believe a well placed shot will drop elk (a 54 cal doesnt have to be as well placed).

i offer this as evidence as to the power of the 50

Kathy Sullivan from the AZ Game & Fish asked if she could do some ballistic gel testing using muzzle loaders & hunting loads with PRB.


She documented each shot as to powdwer type, granulation, load, etc.

This was my shot, into gel with Elk rib bones embedded in it. 100 grains of 3f Goex, .490 ball, .010 patch from a Lyman Great Plains rifle. The impact shattered the rib bone in several places, basically pulverizing about an 8" long section of rib, passed thru for about 10" & once again exiting out the top of the block.

 

[necchi]

Kind of a neat oppertunity.
No doubt a 100grns of 3f is a stout load!
What kind of accuracy at say 75-100? Pie plate?
How far away was ya when ya shot into the gel block?

 

[BadHorse]

Kind of a neat oppertunity.
No doubt a 100grns of 3f is a stout load!
What kind of accuracy at say 75-100? Pie plate?
How far away was ya when ya shot into the gel block?

they were shooting at 50 yards, my self at 150 yards i can put my hand over the group. remember this is about hunting loads, not paper punching.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I agree 60 grains is on the light side. I'd try to work up to 90-100 grains. If you go after elk, I recommend you take a look at the Hornady great plains bullet. Use a felt wad under all conicals.

 

[elrotundamundo]

Thanks to all for the very useful input.

Stan

 

[Ron_T.]

Your 60 grain load is ok for deer out to about 75 yards or so, but I'd develop a heavier load for elk who don't die as easily as a deer.

Wound an elk and that elk will travel directly into the "back-country" over several hills and through the valleys... and you'd be lucky if you ever got the meat back to camp.

My own deer load in my .50 caliber Hawken percussion cap CVA rifle is just 65 grains of Swiss FFFg, but I limit my shots to about 75 yards or less.

At that range, your prb will usually shoot THROUGH a deer and go out the other side... leaving two holes to make a good blood trail.

Jus' my 2¢... good luck !~!~! :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

I have no experience with elk but a felt button between the powder charge and the maxiball or conical bullet will often shrink your groups considerably.

Bob

 

[50cal.cliff]

I have no experience with elk. However I would say that's a little light! I use a 90grains of FFg with a patch approx. .18, and .495 lead ball, for my hunting load.
That is extremely hard to load with a rod. It will make you think you need a mallet but if you are careful with the hand placement on the rod (in case the rod breaks) you can hand walk it down, as long as there is little fouling in the barrel.
It packs more of wallop considering just shooting for funzies I will use a .490 ball and .18 patch. When shooting just to be shooting my rifle takes a load from 70gr -90-gr. and keeps fairly consistent accuracy.
The tighter load gains more compression and it has been extremely accurate. Consider this competition BP shooters use a lod they have to drive down with a mallet. They do it for the distance and the accuracy that kind of compression that creates !
A couple of years ago I made a shot on a deer at about 25yds, the shot caught the shoulder blade which it tore to pieces and completely took the deer of it's feet. The furthest I have shot one with that load is about 100-125 yds and it is has always been a deadly load considering my placement of the shot.

 

[elrotundamundo]

Again, thanks for all the input. I went back to the range and decided to start at 90 grains and work down. I took a shot to foul the bore then proceeded to shoot a three shot group at 100 yards. The first thing I noticed was difficulty in loading due to fouling. With the 60 grain load, the fouling was slight and I shot a dozen or so times and it was not building up much. I probably could have shot all day.

I had difficulty loading and shooting just a three shot string and they were all over the target. Hmmm, maybe I'll try 70 grains and work up. Looking at the tables in the Lyman manual, I saw that 70 gr. only gained 29 FPS at 100 yd. 80 grains only gained 58 fps. Clearly,a patched round ball is at it's limit at 100 yards.

I decided to leave my load at the accurate, easy loading 60 grains and limit my yardage on deer to 75 or so.

As for elk, I think I will work up a load with a Maxi or maybe a Great Plains and rely on the momentum of the heavier slug for penetration.

 

[William O.]

Try swabbing the barrel between shots with an alcohol dampened cleaning patch. It will remove 90% of the fouling and get you back to easy loading.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

SJ,

May I suggest you clean the barrel between shots. I have never taken a fouling shot when hunting. My first shot is from a cold clean barrel. When I worked up a hunting load I tried to replicate the condition my rifle will be in when hunting as much as possible.

At a minimum, after you load your second round, and before you prime, run a moistened (not dripping wet ) patch down the barrel on top of the loaded round and follow it with one or two dry patches. You might find your results will improve with those heavier loads in the shallower rifling of the TC barrel.

 

[tg]

I would go with a heavier load if shooting to 100 yds and would use 3f, the "flatter"ne can get a load to shoot the less one must compensate for differnt ranges and use the point blank aimimg system which is to aim at the same point at any range from the muzzle to 100+yds and have the ball hit a bit high/low or on the mark, all being in the kill zone though and eliminating and range, holdover, holdunder considerations,the load mentioned is one I would not use much past 50 yds myself and I have nothing in the way of experience with any of the modern conicals some now use in ML's

 

[oldfrank]

I have always used 70 grns of Goex FFG with my .50's. It has put down every deer I shot.

I limit my shots to about 75 yards but my eyes are the limit, not the load.

I have shot both the Great Plains bullets and the T/C Maxi Hunters with 100 grns and it would usually knock a deer off it's feet. Pretty stout recoil also. I would think those would be good for an Elk but I have never shot one.

 

[majg1234]

I worked up a load for a TC GreyHawk several years back,90gr RS pyrodex, felt wad over powder,and a TC Maxi Hunter hand cast of pure lead...shot a large Doe broadside @90yds,knocked her off her feet and she was dead right there,have taken 8 deer with that load and the longest tracking I've done was 10-15 yards,so if you can get a load some where in that range to be accurate it should be no problem taking an Elk with a well placed shot

 

[dave n]

I have a renegade hunter also . I use the 370 gr maxi ball with a 110 grs of pyrodex . It'll shoot 2 1/2 " , 75 yd groups . Slams every deer I've shot .
Should make for some good elk medicine .