.50 cal Plains Pistol by Lyman

[Pittsburghunter]

I built one a few years ago and it shoots ok I was wondering if anyone out here has one that shoots exceptional and what load they use to get there.

As a starting refference it will shoot as good if not better that a .357mag at 35yds. Obviously without the same killing power but I want to maximize this little hand cannon.

(I believe the .357 Colt had a 4 1/2 or 5 inch barrel.)


:thanks: in advance.

 

[Rat]

Don't be too fast to sell that pistol short of the .357, with 50 grains or so behind a double ball or a slug, I'm not real sure the .357 would beat it.

Also, if the .50" ball weighs 177, that's way more weight than the 158 grain .357 slug, and just short of the 180 grain .357 slugs. I bet a stout powder charge in the plains pistol would push that ball faster or at least AS fast than a 180 from a .357 Mag.

(1300fps is about what you'll get at best from a 4" .357mag, with the 180...I've done a "little" bit of work with the .357mag)

...in which case, combined with the greater frontal area of the .50", (.490" vs .357", big difference) I'm thinking I'd rather be shot with the three-five-seven.

At worst, I bet they are an even match, killing power wise. I'm thinking 60 grains (I can hear the groaning now!) behind a ball would leave the .357 in the dust. No I don't suggest 60 grain loads in that pistol for a regular diet!

How about 40-50 grains under one of them Hornady 300 grain slugs? Hmmmmmmm???

:hmm:

Hey I'm jealous. There's a pistol like that for sale in the classifieds...I'm trying really hard to scrape up the spare change before someone else does!! The voices are telling me I NEED a single shot pistol.

:youcrazy:

Rat

 

[Charles/NM]

Shooting equal to a .357 at 35yds isn't anything to scoff at. At least not if your .357 shoots as good as my Black Hawk does. I can hit a beer can at every time at 40yds with a one hand hold. If I hold it with two hands it's too close for me to focus on the front sight. Good 'nuff for me.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

So you are not to dissapointed I would check these guns out in person before buying one. I bought the build it your self kit and the fit and finish of the parts was horrible. Flashing on the trigger guard of more than 3/8 of an inch, the inlets for the lock have gaps over 1/16 and I had to take down the tang inlet about 3/16 just to get the barrel in the stock.

I have left most of the "over wood" alone in hopes of some day meeting a master woodsmith who will smooth it out for short money. I did see some factory guns at different shops and I like mine better that the factory finished guns.

Even though it looks like I finished it with a file and sandpaper (What?? I did finish it with a file and sandpaper) it does look better than the factory gun.


However it shoots great and I am looking for someone who has found a conical to shoot through it. (I know Cayugad my never ending quest to spend more money on bullets instead of shooting prb's)

 

[Old Charlie]

I have one and have both the .50 and .54 barrel for it. I got it as a.54 and picked up the .50 barrel a Midsouth shooters supply for about $40. Both shoot very well! I have only shot PRB in the .50 but a 300 grain REAL over a 45 grains of 3f geox shoots good in the .54.
Old Charlie

 

[mec]

this one is ready made (50 cal)and is fitted up well enough to please me. One feature that makes me want to fit and finish an extra barrel is the enormous amount of reading material on the left side of the barrel. This would be easy to drawfile away.
I've read about one dude who split several stocks on his 54 shooting the recommended maximum of 50 grains/ball. with this one, I've stuck with the recommended 40 grains noting that lyman goes ahead and recommends that charge with Some 250 grain bullets. I've shot 50 grains in an old CVA mountain pistol and suspect that it would be ok to load this one heavier. Percussion pistol stocks are riddled with inletting cuts and not particularly strong and I haven't felt the need to experiment with heavy loads. A lot of people do and are happy with them
http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Muzzleloaders_and_Blackpowder/lymanloads2.jpg

I've found that the lighter loads shoot to about the same poi as the heavier ones at 25 yards and have gotten casually rested 4" groups at 50 yards with both patched balls and REAL bullets.

 

[Rat]

I have heard of the stock-splitting too. I've never taken one of these guns apart to look at the inletting and bedding, but wouldn't it be a simple matter to glass bed them? That should eliminate any weak points, with perhaps a tighter group as a bonus.

????????????

Rat

 

[mec]

glass bedding sure wouldn't hurt. I did it with my Lyman GP rifle. the trick would be to get enough of it in the right places to do good. These pistols are available on line through Lyman Products and they list all the parts. Some people barbie doll them and end up with both calibers. I look at them as just about the perfect choice for somebody wanting to experience the real sensations of shooting an early 19th century caplock just so long as he isn't put off knowing that the lockwork contains coil springs instead of the old flat leaf jobs.

 

[Tahquamenon]

At the risk of a fistfight, there ought to be plenty that is more effective than a PRB from your pistol for hunting purposes.

The rifling in the Lyman Plains Pistol is rather slow; 1:30". So a Sabot or longer conical may or may not be as accurate down range.

FYI, Lyman does not recommend shooting anything other than a PRB from the Plains Pistol. This is due to safety and that the pistol being holstered downward facing could allow the projectile to raise off of the powder charge causing a gap which could be dangerous.
http://lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/LymanUsersGuide.pdf

Here is your max loading data:
Plains Pistol
.50 - .495" RB 40 grs. 3Fg
.54 - .535" RB 50 grs. 3Fg

But, I would think that a light to medium weight Buffalo Ball-et, slip-fit light conical or Sabot would give you an extra whack on the fur end of the equation without too much trouble.
Buffalo Ball-et .50 245-grain

A sabot round with a 180, 200 or 240 Hornady XTP or my newest favorite the SST in 250gr.
I shot both the XTP 240 and the SST 250 from my DP Kentucky 50 cal pistol (1:18" rifling) and the accuracy was outstanding at 25 yards. Better than a PRB. I'll be hunting deer at close range (under 30 yards) with my DP 50cal Kentucky Pistol with the 250gr SST next deer season.

223 or 245gr PowerBelt aerotip might be interesting as well.

All you can do is try and see what fly's the best within the loading limit of the pistol.

:imo: :m2c: :results:

 

[mec]

the sheet packed with the pistol- probably from Investarms says not to use conical bullets. The reason is they might migrate forward, act as a barrel obstruction and buldge the barrel. The lyman black powder handbook, however lists a number of loads with bullets- buffalo as I recall. I used the lighter weight, 250 grain REAL bullet
Lee R.E.A.L Bullet 250 Grain 40 fffg 753fps 46spread
Lee R.E.A.L Bullet 250 grain 40 Pyrodex P 889 89 spread
and found them to be cutting round holes in the targets at 25 and 50 yards. They would shoot into a 4" group at 50 yards sitting on the ground with my back rested and shooting over a chronograph.

I also shot the Hornady Plains bullet- again with good stability and accuracy - although at much less velocity
Hornady 385 Gr. Plains Bullet 40 Pyrodex 657fps 102

I bump tested the REALs and didn't find any bullet creep.- though results may vary. The enclosures with rifles often warn that the bullets should be checked frequently to assure that they haven't moved forward and become potential obstructions. Whether or not using bullets is advisable, I do not know. I did it just to see what would happen accepting whatever risk might develop.

 

[mec]

The Lyman stock actually looks a good bit stronger than the original Aston Johnson we have or some of the smaller kits. Still the lock inletting is deep and pretty close to the patent breach screw. Also the trigger group is inletted more deeply than really shows up and the ram rod bore is very close to both major inletted areas.

Lyman Lock and Trigger:
http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Muzzleloaders_and_Blackpowder/lymanlock.jpg

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Yep the fit on that one is alot better than my kit. I wonder if they pick the best stocks to make their finished guns. I do like the color of that pistol vey much. I finished mine with Tru Oil only and it is a bit bright compare to that one. :thanks:

 

[mec]

While I like tru-oil a lot, it is actually a thin varnish and tends to be bright. roughing it with pumice tones it down a bit. (Birchwood/Casey stock sheen) Even so, a lot of old pistol stocks and revolver grips were varnished so, it's not out of keeping with the era.

I wondered the same thing about picking out the culls for kits when I got the lincoln derringer. a lot of rotted out knot material there. The lyman plains rifle I build from a kit right after the first model came out, had good wood and everything was pretty well fitted before I even started on it.

 

[Rat]

Ha ha TQ we're not gonna fight you over sabots!!

:nono:

Let's see, for the .50", that 40 grain max must include a pretty wide safety margin...would it be stepping into dangerous ground to start second-guessing the factory, and up it to 50? The factory would be pretty foolish to list the maximum charge within ten grains of what would damage the pistol.

I don't think it takes much glass bedding to really increase the strength of the bed and wood. Just eliminating any movement of the barrel in the stock during recoil probably makes a big difference.

The REAL's are a very tight fit in a barrel...I doubt that they would move with normal handling of the gun.

Rat

 

[mec]

I would suspect you are right on all counts. My pistol is so closly fitted that it almost looks glass bedded. I used to shoot 50 grains in an old cva that was quite a bit flimsier than this one. Jeeezzzz, was it LOUD. I notice that Swiss powder and h777 get much higher velocities than goex fffg so the pressure and torque is a good bit higher.

 

[Tahquamenon]

50 grains of 3FG (particularily Swiss or hot subs) in a 50cal pistol is a pretty stout load in my view. Especially if we are talking about increasing the nominal RB projectile weight of 177gr substantially. Like in a heavier conical, ball-et or sabot.

The sabot may be the most concern as they can be very tight fitting depending on which sabot which would also increase pressures.
If a sabot was the choice, perhaps one that uses a .429/430 bullet. These are typically not as tight in the barrel as .451/452 bullets and sabots.

Also, I am always an advocate of staying within what is published as far as loading data. Even though the PRB is what is recommended, I do think that another projectile could be used if not too heavy.

For example, I think the doubling the weight of the projectile is too much for this application.

 

[Rat]

As far as slugs go, it almost looks like the law of diminishing returns is reached (broken?) before one can even get started. Perhaps the safest way to increase power is to just stick with the round ball and up the powder charge to whatever one is "comfortable" with, and just go for maximum velocity.

Again, if one got the 177 grain ball going 1300fps or so, you would be matching .357 Magnum ballistics, with a projectile that has MORE, MUCH, FAR greater frontal diameter. That would make for a pretty darn good, powerful back-up sidearm methinks.

Rat

 

[Tahquamenon]

Obviously Rat, you love PRB's.

Unless you are suggesting of staying within the loading data for the arm (while being comfortable), I think increasing the charge to achieve the desired effect is dangerous at a minumum and irresponsible.

 

[Zonie]

Well, the best velocity the Lyman BP Handbook gives for a .50 caliber in an 8 inch barrel, 1:30 twist shooting a .495 dia 182 grain roundball is with 40 grains of Pyrodex P. The velocity given is 1069 FPS, 462 Ft/Lbs muzzle energy.
They don't list loads over 40 grains for the .50

The .54 cal shooting 50 grains of Goex FFFg under a .530 dia 222 grain ball gives a velocity of 1044 FPS, 537 Ft/Lbs muzzle energy.

Face it folks, BP is not going to make a 170 year old pistol design outdo modern smokeless powder guns, nor should we expect it to.

IMO, loads over 50 grains in an 8 inch barrel will make a lot more flash, and noise, and recoil (from the powder weight), but darn little velocity gain.

Also IMO, if someone wants a .357 mag's performance, they should buy a .357 mag.
:m2c:

 

[merdean]

Zonie,
Last time I looked the good ol .45ACP was originally loaded with a 230gr FMJ Roundnose bullet at about 800-850fps. It appears to me that the .54 with PRB and 50gr charge that you quote at 222gr and 1044 FPS would match a "modern" firearm if you can call a 45ACP MODERN. My .54 shoots as well as most .45's, just not as fast. Having said that we must understand that we aren't supposed to be trying to equal a "modern" firearm. They don't smoke!