54 vs 58 is the TC book correct?

[Sharp Shooter]

I was looking at my TC manuel at the ballistics. The 54cal roundball has a lot more energy than the 58cal roundball. I am trying to decide what I wan't and I am almost thinking 54cal. Everyone says thier 58's are thunder and that they just pound elk and deer. The 54cal has more energy though. I am having trouble deciding. Would the 54cal roundball be more lethal? I would not be afraid to shoot a moose with it. My mind is going crazy trying to decide!

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Mass = 230 Velocity = 1855 Kinetic Pulse = 3328.520 kp Kinetic Energy = 1757.044 ft-lb Momentum = 1.894 slug ft/sec Energy/Momentum = 927.500 E/M

Mass = 279 Velocity = 1428 Kinetic Pulse = 2234.379 kp Kinetic Energy = 1263.070 ft-lb Momentum = 1.769 slug ft/sec Energy/Momentum = 714.000 E/M

 

[roundball]

You have to be careful when comparing things on the surface so you don't get mislead with figures that are almost meaningless like muzzle energy...my guess is that you simply compared the max load line between the two and assumed since the .54 had a greater energy level for it's max load and assumed the .54cal must be more powerful...incorrect...if it was, they wouldn't make the .58, the .62, etc, etc.

Don't be mislead by the fact that TC stopped it's max load listing at 120grns 2F for each chart...if you want to make energy comparisons of a projectile, you have to use a common base of data such as velocity comparisons as a foundation.

For example...using these two very close velocities from the charts shows the reality of the additional power derived from the heavier .58cal ball:

.54cal: 1654fps = 1397 ft/lbs
.58cal: 1595fps = 1576 ft/lbs

You have to decide WHAT you're going to hunt and the LONGEST shot you want to be prepared for...then you can best decide on a caliber.
If all you're going to do is hunt whitetails in typical eastern woods, a .58cal is over kill...all 5 bucks I've shot with mine have been no further than 50yds and they've all been complete passthroughs.

IMO, a .45/.50cal are really all that're needed in those conditions, with the .54cal adding an extra margin due it's ball weight, like the .58cal adds an extra margin due to it's ball weight.

 

[Rocky Johnson]

I didn't know that! Have no idea why you need any thing bigger than A 54.cal for Elk or deer.Not likeing a lot of recoil I will stick with my 54.
:winking: Rocky

 

[roundball]

I didn't know that! Have no idea why you need any thing bigger than A 54.cal for Elk or deer.Not likeing a lot of recoil I will stick with my 54.
:winking: Rocky

I thought that would be the case when I got my .58, and when the .62...but it hasn't been the case at all.

I haven't seen any noticebale difference in recoil in the .58 or .62...yes, the balls are heavier but the bore volumes are progressively larger and I suspect that helps moderate the pressure...they are also longer barrelds which puts a little more weight into the equation.

Just mentioning it for the benefit of knowing that a caliber decision for those two should not be based upon anticipated recoil because it just hasn't been a factor that I've seen.

 

[lonewolf5347]

I myself have compared the to 2 cal. and would say the 58cal. would have more mass energy at shorter distance but the 54 cal. will hold better when reaching out for distance long shots 100 yards or a tad more.
Am I correct

 

[roundball]

I myself have compared the to 2 cal. and would say the 58cal. would have more mass energy at shorter distance but the 54 cal. will hold better when reaching out for distance long shots 100 yards or a tad more.
Am I correct

Actually the reverse is true...a heavier projectile holds higher energy levels...and to longer distances.

Best everyday life example of that can be seen at a bowling alley...the little kid can barely carry a bowling ball and struggles to swing it even a few inches...it rolls down an alley so slow you can watch the finger holes come up and around each time...yet when that barely moving "heavy projectile" hit the pins it just keeps plowing right on into/through them.

To use an extreme opposite example simply to make the point, a baseball could be thrown down the lane as fast as possible but wouldn't do anywhere near the damage that the heavy bowling ball did.

If I was going to be hunting a place that had longer than average shots I'd grab the .58cal without hesitation.

 

[bob308]

well the way i look at it if the .54 will not kill it with good shot placement then the .58 will not either with good or bad shot placement. and that is what seams to be happing around here

and a lot of other places. more so in the c-f hunters. they miss or a deer gets way with a 30-30 then they need a 30-06. then the next time it happens they need a 7mm mag. on and on. till i think some will be needing wheels.

the adverage range is about 60 yds.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

The thing is I already have a 54cal barrel that shoots good with 100gr FFG it is just in bad shape but it works. I might do the 58cal

 

[Stubert]

When comparing big bore projectiles,I use the Taylor KO value. I think it is more accurate because One should take into account bore diameter. velocity x weight x diam. -:- 7000 =TKO

 

[Headhunter]

Its like this genglemen.

"Little Powder, Much Lead, shoots far, kills dead."

Throw a Ping Pong Ball as hard as you can across a field. Then Pick up a Golf Ball and do the same. See which one goes farther and hits harder.

A man can get pretty rapped up with facts and figures.

The Facts are ....There ain't a Grizz or Moose alive that can take a .50 Cal Round ball through the Gizzard and not die.

And It Figures, a .58 will put a bigger wop on em. Plain and simple.

Headhunter

 

[roundball]

SS, where are you located?
Where do you hunt?

 

[ffffg]

i have a .62 and a .54.. the .54 will kick the .62s butt on most days for accuracy.. . i like the .62 best for hunting.. im in elk country and if i get a little ahead and into the shoulder i can depend on the .62 in that case.. but ive studied the two quite abit.. the type of sights are different on the two and it makes a definite difference... there is alot more room around the sides of the blade in the rear sight knotch and that helps a huge bunch in low light when i shoot the guns off after a day of hunting at closing time.. the .54 is heavier than the .62, it weights 9 1/2 pounds and its weight lies in the barrel, this is really important for accuarcy as it dampens recoil when being held offhand or kneeling and gives better accuracy becouse of hold and recoil.. my 54 uses a light load and its less recoil helps point of impact variations in the differnt shooting possitons. i shoot a heavy load in the .62 and different positions recoil differently.. tight/ hold light hold can really screw up point of impact on a heavy loaded lighter gun.. the .54 is broke in and an old gun with 8 ounce set trigger. this really helps me.. the .62 is my favorite hunter, the .54 is my target rifle, but goes on as a backup when hunting,.. so caliber is not all that there is to it.. to me the .58 wins hands down but the .54 is a great gun and i can see why anyone would want one.... there actually is a big difference in the two calibers in my opinion.. but the gun style, lenght, sights as ive said, weight, trigger pull, cast off/strait stock, rifling depth, land width, round bottom grooves/square grooves, twist rate, coned muzzel or not, set trigger,doulbe trigger, room in the trigger guard,sling, barrel strait/swamped, , all this and more can make two guns of the same caliber totally different.. :hmm: and as a last note, a well thought out well made gun is a better choice than the perfect caliber that isnt put together right.. dave..

 

[Tracy]

Myself iI will take the 3 t 400 fps flatter tragetery and extra ft lbs of the .54 any day.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I am in Colorado. I plan to hunt elk, mule deer, and moose some day. I also wan't to go on a Caribou hunt. I will mainly hunt the Rocky Mountains.

Based on the ballistics I have ran; To get the same ballistics the 58cal gets with 120gr FFG I only need between 90-100gr FFG in the 54cal. I really hate to get tied up in ballistics but it is hard to when the charts clearly show that the 54cal has more energy. I am still not sure what do get. Sometimes I say I already have a 54cal so just get a 58cal. I also would like the 58cal since not a lot of people have it. But on the other side I already have stuff for a 54cal. The 54cal is plenty and is has more energy. It seems like I have each caliber sitting each shoulder talking to me!!!

 

[roundball]

:grin: you have to stop with the numbers...they're getting you all confused...a .54cal is not more gun than a .58cal. Look at all the answers you've received from the majority of people that have responded to this same question you post every couple of months on different websites.

Given a choice before walking out of the house, the .58cal is routinely identified as a more powerful choice than the .54 by those who own them both and understand the differences for the types of hunting and average shot distances you usually talk about.

But if you already have a .54cal then go hunt with it...make the decision based upon already having one and the expectation that the .54cal will also get the job done.

But...don't make that decision because you think it's a more powerful muzzleloader than a .58cal.
:winking:

Good luck

 

[ffffg]

heres what your missing.. the .54 starting at lets say 1800 fps is moving 1089 fps at 100 yards with 592ft lbs remianing muzzel energy.. the .58 at a muzzel vel of 1500 fps will be moving 997 fps with a terminal energy of 618 foot pounds, ... the higher balistic coeficint, the bigger mass of the ball at the impact point, the larger diameter all give the .58 much more power than what is generally percieved when hitting an animal.. the .62 will kick both thier butts.. a 335 round ball at 1400 fps its remaining energy at 100 yards is 690ft lbs. you dont have the hydrostaic shock of modern guns with bp.. just pennetration amount and diameter of wound chanel.. the bigger calibers to me are tougher to handle (when hunting) accurately as also are large powder loads, so your shooting expereince and time that you will spend at the range will be needed to be taken into account also.. a 54 with 90 grains of 2f will be an accurate gun and a pleasure to shoot, giving you accuracy, and succes :grin: , as opposed to problems or missed shots.. power is not at all what it is about.. .. :v .. dave..

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Since I have a 54cal why get another? I will get the 58cal. Midway has them for $154 but they do not have the 54 roundball barrel.

 

[rabbit03]

Hi Sharp Shooter

I shoot my 58 with a .575 288grn round ball patched with a .020 patching material. The barrel is a Green Mountain with a 1:70 twist rate. I can shoot it off hand all day and never get a bruise, even with the Hawkens curved steel butplate. The rifles added weight of the 42 inch 1 1/8 barrel make it just a bit over 14 lbs and that may add to the reduction of kick on the back end. However the point is this, the rifle is a dream to shoot, even all day long with no ill effects even while using 120grn of FFG.

rabbit03

ps Still waiting to kill something with it though!

 

[pab1]

Don't pay too much attention to the f.p.e. numbers. The figures for f.p.e never show the power generated by big bore rounds with lower velocities. A more useful guide for performance on game is either "Thornily Relative Stopping Power" or "Taylor Knock Out Power" found on Bear Tooth Bullets site.
[url] www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/index.htm[/url]