.58 cal hunting rifle

[Kapow]

It's time to just accept the fact that the blackpowder addiction isn't going away any time soon, and invest in the rifle that I really want. Problem is, I am in Australia and we don't have access to the goodies that you guys do.

I am currently shooting a CVA mountain rifle in .54 calibre. It shoots roundballs very straight with 90gns FFg but I used to own a T/C big bore and shot .58 cal Hornady great plains bullets with great effect.

I sold that .58 rifle because it just wasn't traditional enough (inlines are an abomination to me). I mainly hunt deer and pigs at home but have been doing a few trips to Africa and would like to see Canada again also.

I would like to build/have built a .58 cal Hawken in 1:48 twist to shoot the big maxis from 525gn and up. It seems that all of the production hawkens are a bit short in the barrel. I would like to keep it over 30".I have been looking at the "Oregon" brand barrels through "the Gun Works" and I see they do a drop in barrel in .58. Does anyone know if these barrels slip straight into a Lyman great plains rifle? Alternatively has anyone had any experience with the pre-inlet stocks such as the kit carson hawken half stock from TOTW? Would this be an appropriate stock for the barrel mentioned?

The second question is would I gain enough killing power (not muzzle energy) with the .58 using 525gn bullets over the faster .54 cal with 425gn bullets to make it all worthwhile. At some stage I would like to use it against game such as buffalo, grizzly, moose, etc.

Has anyone tried shooting buffalo ball-ets out of a .54 cal roundball rifle? This may give me a little extra power for bigger critters.

All input greatly appreciated.

 

[Birddog6]

First thing that hits me is barrel dia. Is your existing barrel 1" across the flats? If so I can see the possibilities of a drop-in barrel in .58. Also you may encounter a problem with hammer/nipple alignment if the barrel is not made FOR that particular rifle. Worst case would be have to swap hammers when ya swap barrels,(rather than bending them all the time) but not a big deal if everything else works out.

Sure ballets will shoot of the the round ball barrel. Just all depends on the distance & accuracy you require. However, most of the time maximum accuracy will not be obtained because there is not enough twist to stabilize the long projectile. It all depends on what you require from it. If you want pie plate groups at 50 yard should not be an issue. If you want 1" groups at 50 yards, that could be a problem. If I was to shoot ball-ettes or maxi's all the time from the .58 I would use a faster twist than a 48. Since you will have the barrel made for the rifle, get the twist for the bullet you want & bring in the accuracy as well.

Keith Lisle

 

[bwhoffman]

I would email the gunworks back and forth and do some communications with them! they are very open minded, curtious and knowledgable folks.

I have a 58 in a 28 inch barrel, and its down range energy is amazing!

 

[BrownBear]

I've got OBW barrels and they're dandy. Nice folks too!

You might run into a crossfire on putting a 58 cal on a GPR. The GPR has a 15/16" barrel, while "standard" for the 58 cal these days is 1". I don't see any way on my GPRs to open up the barrel channel and reseat the lock for the larger barrel either.

HOWEVER. In the past, lots of 15/16" barrels and guns were turned out in 58 caliber. Now and then you still see used Investarm, CVA and other makes in 58 cal. In my mind it becomes a question of whether you could talk OBW into making you one in a 15/16" barrel and outfitting it with the hardware for a GPR. Do-able, but I'm not sure these days if it is "lawyer-able."

As for using the 58 cal for Africa, some decades ago several people were using modified 58 cal Zoli's in Africa with reported great success. The loads were heavy charges behind 600+ grain conicals, but I really wonder if those loads weren't some of the inspiration behind companies ceasing to offer 15/16" barrels in 58 caliber.

As for having a 58 cal built to your specs, that may be the best option. I'd certainly consider using a tapered barrel for balance, though. I've got a 58 caliber Hawken from Green River Rifle works with a 36" barrel. It weighs a whopping 12 pounds, but with the barrel tapered from 1 1/8" to 1", the balance is surprisingly good. I've also got a heavily modified TC Hawken with a 26" 58 cal OBW barrel tapered from 1 1/8" to 15/16". It weighs 9 pounds, but balances like a fine shotgun with no "muzzle weight." I've got a couple of Big Boars and several friends have 32" drop-in barrels on their TC Hawkens. The Big Boar has decent balance, but the longer drop-ins are getting awfully muzzle heavy for my taste. Your taste might find them entirely agreeable.

Buffalo Ball-ettes are no longer made, so if your mind is running that way, I'd start an immediate search for remnants from any source. Some folks report equal happiness with short, light "Pennsylvania" conicals from several sources.

Comparing heavy 54 caliber conicals with heavy 58 caliber conicals is mostly guesswork and conjecture, because I don't recall hearing or reading of anyone doing a systematic comparison on game. I have played a lot with both, but never drawn blood with either. I will say that they both "bite" very well on the back end of the rifle with heavy charges. But you know that already!

 

[hoochiepapa]

I have tried ballets through my long rifle, the twist is 1-66. But I don't think the ballets were stabilized because accuracy was pretty poor. I was having such good luck with prb's that I gave up on the ballets.
I use 110 grs of 2F goex, a .015 patch lubed with mink oil, a .535 ball, and I get 3" groups at 100 yards. I don't know what the velocity is, but I'm confident that I could take any game in North America with that load. :thumbsup:

 

[Kapow]

Thanks guys for all of your advice. I didn't think the 1" drop in would go in the lyman but that is how they advertise it. I am consulting with the Gun Works but apparently they have lost their barrel maker which could make it a bigger challenge as their drop in is not currently offered.

Track of the wolf offer a tremendous range of parts for their varioous pre inlet stocks. By clicking on "view 9" on their Kit Carson stock page they give a list for the correct parts needed. The question is will I be able to get the right barrel to line up with it all correctly? Its also a bit of a gamble importing parts into Australia as they may or may not make it through customs.

The other tempting alternative is to just buy a Lyman GPR hunter in .54 cal which I would be happy to do if I could work out if the faster 425gn .54 maxi is just as effective as the 525gn maxi at slower velocity. I don't believe energy figures are everything. I think the momentum of the bigger slug would be more effective on buff.

I have a narrow window to make it all happen as our dollar is equal value to the US dollar for the first time in decades and it likely won't last.

Keep you posted on the outcome.

 

[BrownBear]

The other tempting alternative is to just buy a Lyman GPR hunter in .54 cal which I would be happy to do if I could work out if the faster 425gn .54 maxi is just as effective as the 525gn maxi at slower velocity.

Kind of a judgment call in comparing "effectiveness." But with the 1:32 twist Great Plains Hunter barrel I'd be surprised if it didn't shoot both accurately. I've shot plenty of 460 grain conicals, and they're tack drivers.

 

[tiger955]

I would forget the ball-ettes if you are looking for serious knock-down power. Others may have other experience with them, but I have tried them in both 1-48 and 1-70 twist barrels (50 cal only) and they seem to shoot ok with moderate powder charges, but step up to heavy charges and accuracy goes to pot. I think the hollow skirt is getting blown out.

 

[Kapow]

Sorry Brownbear, I was coomparing the 425gn Hornady Great Plains Bullet in .54 cal with the 525gn same bullet in .58 cal. I still have a stash of the .58's which is what I used to hunt with in my .58 T/C big boar before I sold it. With 80gns of FFg it was murder on big crusty old boars.

I imagine I would get similar performance on bigger critters. Have been doing a bit of bowhunting in Africa and shot a couple of eland, wildebeast and zebra which are incredibly tough.

 

[BrownBear]

I wondered, because I couldn't find any 525 54 calibers, yet I have all those 58 cals sitting there on the shelf. Though Hornady isn't making them any more, I'm sure you're aware that TC is still turning out their 58's. I have less regard for them than the Hornady, but at least they're a source.

I've been playing with the 58 cal "Improved Maxie" cast from LEE molds, and I'm sincerely impressed with it on paper. It has a very large meplat, especially compared to traditional minies, and ought to be an emphatic performer on game. The skirt allows stiffer loads, and I've shot it a fair bit with 80-90 grains of 2f and 3f, and accuracy definitely does not suffer. It tips the scale at 478 grains in the .578 oversize configuration, and is startlingly accurate even in a 1:48" twist of the Big Boar. It's more accurate for me than the REAL from LEE, in which I have less confidence for game.