58 caliber - trajectory puzzle

[Tony Logan]

Okay I knew it wasn't going to shoot flat, especially with a low powder charge. I got a chance to shoot a lot the last 2 days. First I love the gun for what I got it for. I wanted the advantage on short range novelty targets, 25 to 50 yard paper, and woods walks ( I hate to see a .40 caliber not knock down a steel target). It is proving itself in all three of those areas. I got very tight one ragged hole groups when shooting off sandbags with lyman mould cast .562 balls and .20 denim patches with 85 FFF Goex. I weighed the balls after tumbling them in a coffee can in the back of my truck for a week or so. I only shot the ones that were 266 grains. The 264 and 262 will go back in the pot. I had no fliers on paper and my only misses at novelty targets were operator error. I am not used to shooting balls that fly that consistent. I have always bought my balls.
What I did learn is it is a hair under dead on at 12.5 yds (an average novelty target distance) I did shoot quite a few wood beads that were smaller than the 58 caliber ball today mounted on bamboo skewers. I also cut 5 playing cards clean in to ( I had never hit one with my .45). I half cut two others. So I am extremely happy with the close work. It is 1 inch higher than point of aim at 25 so I can almost go with a 6 o'clock hold on the small bull. It was 2 inches higher than point of aim at 50 yds. I can hold at 6 on a small bull there. I was shocked when It dropped the ball 5 inches at 75 yds below point of aim. After about 4 shots I immediately started pouring 100 grains of FFF and it was about an inch high at 75 yds. I then got stuck trying to find the magic load at 100. I tried 115, 120, and 125 grains of FFF. I never quite got that one figured out. Its hard for me to know I am holding perfectly on the center of the bull at that distance. I do have a ton of respect for the gun and those who can make the long shots with it just by holding over their target and not monkeying around with their load. I am going to have fun playing with this thing and it looks like I need to attach a notepad to its trigger guard to keep up with my data.

 

[BrownBear]

Your trajectory results with the lighter charge sound pretty right on to me. With 80 grains of 3f from a 28" barrel (old Investarms) I have to be close to 2" high at 50 yards in order to be right on at 75, then I'm around 6 low at 100. Pretty darned loopy- too much so for my hunting needs.

At 100 grains of 3f things start to behave better, with only an inch high at 50 and 4 or so low at 100 with the 75 yard sight in. The gun is light so, swapping to 2f and going to 120 grains starts getting a little bity.

My standard charge with 32" barrels is 100 grains of 2f for very similar trajectory as 100 grains of 3f with the shorter barrel. My heavy (12# GRRW Hawken) 36" 58 with 140 grains of 2f is downright flat, landing only half an inch high at 50 and around 2-3 low at 100 with the 75 yard sight in. Put the same charge in any of the lighter 58's though, and you'll have no doubt when you light it off. :shocked2:

 

[Tony Logan]

I haven't even tried 2FF yet, I didn't even try the 100grain charge at a close range. I have a lot of shooting to do before I get this one figured out. Sure glad it likes the Lyman .562's so well.

 

[majg1234]

love my 58's and thanks to BB encouragement I have 3,a yet unfired TC Hawken,an Investarms,and a TVM Early VA,I've settled in on 120gr Ffg goex,562 round ball .018 ticking and 20ga felt wad over powder.Each of the 2 I shoot mimic BB reported results and are very accurate out to 100yrds.This year I took a large doe with the Early VA @ a measured 77rds.With some work you'll find that the 58 will make a very good and authoritative round. :thumbsup:

 

[Matt85]

Sure glad it likes the Lyman .562's so well.

gonna go out on a limb here and assume you mean a Lee .562? i know Lyman makes a .570 but not a .562.

my 58 is still at my builders getting finished up but very soon ill be in the same boat. i just picked up some 7/8" flints at a local gun show and put an order in at totw for a Lyman .570 mold. this gun will be very light (around 7 lb) so ill try and keep away from loads over 120 grains as i need my shoulder where it is.

im thinking ill start out just like you at 80 grains and work my way up. im still unsure whether i should use 2F or 3F but ill probably try both and see where i end up. i can see 3F as being a bit sharp on the recoil with such a light weight gun so i dont doubt ill end up with 2F.

-matt

 

[George T.]

Having a 58 with a 1 in 60 28 inch barrel in route I have read this post with intrest. I can not see my needing to shoot over 100 yards. In fact years of bow hunting have me trying to get much closer than that to game animals.

I ordered the Dutch Schultz package a while back and he says that the first sweet spot in accuracy will be on or about 1 1/2 the bore diameter. So I was going to start at 85 grains ans slowly increase it until I get the smallest groups that I can manage at 50 yards and then check the point of impact at the other yardages.

I have several pounds of both 2 and 3F powder but I was going to start at 2F. I intend to stay with PRB's since I live in the land of 100 pound deer. You sure had a small sort range so you must cast very well. What kind of groups were you getting at 25 and go yards? Geo. T.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

if i had to go by the theory of "Get closer" i'd shoot a bow :haha:


.562" is a good ball for the 58. I cast them for range practice but do like the heavier 280gr round ball in .570 for hunting.

.562 ball in my 58cal cva hawken with 110gr pyrodex rs and .020 patch will do 2" groups at 100 yards. Still have to play with other powders to see if i can shrink it a bit.

 

[Tony Logan]

Matt I do have a Lyman .562 mould, I got it off ebay for $20-25 shipped if I remember correctly, much less than TOTW will gouge you for on a new one.

Geo T it makes a serious tight group at 25 and 50, if they dont go thru the same hole, they make a pretty nice 1 inch circle after 3-4 shots.

I havent tried felt wads yet. So much fun this is going to be.

 

[George T.]

While I do try to limit my bow shots to 35 yards or less I try to get my MLR set ups where my shots are 100 yards or less. I have killed several hill country deer with MLR's and I believe the longest shot was 68 or 70 yards. While I know my 100 yard zero on all my hunting rifles I will not shoot that far unless I can rest on some thing and the light conditions are good. I'm knocking on wood but I have never wounded a deer. Geo. T.

 

[nkbj]

Another .562. Ideal and then Lyman made so much neat stuff. Sorely missed.
Haven't gotten around to trying the .562RB with canvas in the Hoyt rebores but it's on the list of O2it's.

 

[majg1234]

I've got a 562 Ideal mold too.It came off fleabay for $30 shipped.Using my old lyman bottem pour with good hot lead get very few cast offs for "Boomers'"562 or my 600's for "Mz Maureen"