60-cal Lever Matchlock Arquebus - WHO made it & WHEN?

[Rudyard]

Here's the barrel. It 'almost' appears as it began life as a 58-cal rifled musket. My reasonings ... heavy/wide breech, slight flats filed at the breech (where the snail could have been ground off, and where the pan is welded on), a patch on a 62-cal (20-gauge) jag won't go down the barrel, but a 58- with heavy patch does, and lastly, the barrel length is 33", of which arms like US CW rifles muskets were.

As such, I think someone took a rifled musket 58-cal barrel and bore/reamed it out to ~60-cal. What say you?

Luckily, I have 1,000s of 0.570" roundballs someone gave me, even if I need to use a thicker patch.

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[Rudyard]

I did reply at some length to this post mentioning it might be Kit Ravenshears work from Along time ago but the post seems to have vanished or somehow lost pity but twas sent I thought the numbers suggest to me gun number & date and it's how I number the ones I made K R but might be miles out .
Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I did reply at some length to this post mentioning it might be Kit Ravenshears work from Along time ago but the post seems to have vanished or somehow lost pity but twas sent I thought the numbers suggest to me gun number & date and it's how I number the ones I made K R but might be miles out .
Rudyard

Thanks Maurice! I’d bet that is it, as the booklets by Kit I have all use an extremely similar ‘fat’ capital ‘K’!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Oh, wow look at the post here of an early English "Crabut" short musket made by the late Kit Ravenshear, a well known maker of early type arms, who passed away in 1998.

Link = CSArms Item Detail

“The stock is a very lightweight wood that has been painted "Spanish Brown". It feels almost toy like. There is no butt plate or entry thimble for the ramrod. There is one sheet iron ramrod pipe. This is an interesting contemporary copy of a very early musket. Kit Ravenshear's work seldom comes to market.”

My stock, as finished, looks IDENTICAL! That would be so cool if I just added something built by the late, great Kit Ravenshear to my collection!

 

[TobJohn]

Oh, wow look at the post here of an early English "Crabut" short musket made by the late Kit Ravenshear, a well known maker of early type arms, who passed away in 1998.

Link = CSArms Item Detail

“The stock is a very lightweight wood that has been painted "Spanish Brown". It feels almost toy like. There is no butt plate or entry thimble for the ramrod. There is one sheet iron ramrod pipe. This is an interesting contemporary copy of a very early musket. Kit Ravenshear's work seldom comes to market.”

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My stock, as finished, looks IDENTICAL! That would be so cool if I just added something build by the late, great Kit Ravenshear to my collection!

I think you cracked the code

 

[DuncNZ]

I did reply at some length to this post mentioning it might be Kit Ravenshears work from Along time ago but the post seems to have vanished or somehow lost pity but twas sent I thought the numbers suggest to me gun number & date and it's how I number the ones I made K R but might be miles out .
Rudyard

There is /was another thread on the same firearm by Flint 62 where you suggested Kit Ravenshear may have been the maker , I cant find it at the moment .

 

[Rudyard]

I don't think there was much of a code too crack .Our Kit was quite a character he didn't just die he went out in' style' . Hes was at Monty Carlo or at the French Riviera Mediterranean coast when he went out on the beach came back to the bar & fell dead. The ashes sent back to Pennsylvania & fired from a canon at his home. The first barrel for the first rifle I ever made was from his Norman's of Framlingham shop in that village. It wasn't what I wanted but was all he had 1"Oct 40 cal Delcur Belgium barrel 1 in 48 pitch .I cobbled it to a slightly swamped 'Beach Stocked ' Fint lock with a wooden tool box vaguely 'After' the Grice rifle in Blackmore's classic book went best at 100 yards with a patched picket style short bullet . Lost to Govt idiocy in Queensland . Ime hopeful it might turn up with one of our Australian Members was sold by Searles gun shop of Brisbane not that I want it, Just be nice to tell the owner its history . Kit was Kit perhaps a tiny bit excentric , but did know stuff .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

There is /was another thread on the same firearm by Flint 62 where you suggested Kit Ravenshear may have been the maker , I cant find it at the moment .

Dear Dunk. Yes felt sure I wrote something earlier .
Cheers Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Thanks Maurice! I’d bet that is it, as the booklets by Kit I have all use an extremely similar ‘fat’ capital ‘K’!

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Who's this Maurice fellow ? There was a fellow bit of a' booth hopper' at F ship did a lot of R vous . Eyes close together , bit of a blowhard , Can't say I know him that well apparently Ran with ' Lizards' Red hats then they changed to 'Widow maker's ' Rough sort of fellow .Well they all had low standards to look down too .( I think one tried to patent 'Forest Grunge ') If he apparently wore a kilt & was primeraly engaged in Confuseing the Woods walkers . Bit of a cad really but you get them sorts ' Ime not him you must be confused ,
Cheers Rudyard

 

[TBone]

Looks like a John Buck. He catered to the 17th century reenactment community. He made a lot of calibers with that stock style. Typically used seamless pipe for the barrels but occasionally used repurposed barrels.

T

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Looks like a John Buck.

Thanks, but has been confirmed to have been built by Kit Ravenshear, as this is his “maker’s mark” as recorded on the Contemporary Longrifle Builder’s website:

 

[rickystl]

Flint: With Kit being confirmed as the maker, you have a real unexpected Christmas surprise and a double bargain for your 300. Congratulations. It's nice to be able to hit a home run every once in a while. LOL Is there a way to guess approximately "when" he made this gun ?

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

Flint: With Kit being confirmed as the maker, you have a real unexpected Christmas surprise and a double bargain for your 300. Congratulations. It's nice to be able to hit a home run every once in a while. LOL Is there a way to guess approximately "when" he made this gun ?

Rick

Well going by the numbers which so no 20 of 1980 I think are the gun number & the date it's how I mark mine its pretty rough but his approach was we modern makers take too much care re finish so not according to him correct . I've heard one noted gunsmith described one of the ' Tower' 1776 rifles as ' Fair to rough ' He made four or five and some of them went to the RA & National Army museum I made the first replica had it at his house . He & Bob Cheel helped greatly with the research for these then unknown rifles .But he was prolific and certainly was a dedicated researcher &' student of arms' . And definitely a' Character '.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

… any idea when approximately "when" he made this gun ?

Rick

Hey Rick:

Going by what Rudy suggested, this was the 20th build by Kit R. in the year 1985.

 

[Rudyard]

Hey Rick:

Going by what Rudy suggested, this was the 20th build by Kit R. in the year 1985.

I'me not saying it was .Just that it might be since I did the same re numbering my guns incidentally I have his stamp all his parts went to his ' Live in' pupil Richard who did restoration work .But when he packed up I bought all the parts he had some being ex Kit,I wasn't sure until I found a Ketland lock that looked familiar it was one I put together for Kit & bore my initials . & his stamp went with the stuff I got .Couldn't find it but it's about be interesting if it's the same one but he had others I expect .
Regards Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

OK. Thanks Flint and Rudyard. The reason I asked for a guess at approximate year you think the gun was made by Kit: I seem to recall that sometime during the 1980's and maybe stretching into the 1990's, there was a growing interest in replica arms that could be made to reflect patterns from say pre-1650 or so. And I don't think The Rifle Shoppe opened for business till around 1990 there about. So it would seem that during that time a matchlock like the one posted here was considered a one-off type of item created by the builder. Barrels and wood would have been available. But locks and other hardware would have to be made from scratch or improvised from something else to create the finished gun. Per the OP's post, cutting off have of the percussion bolster and welding on a hand-made pan and cover is a good example of this ingenuity.
Here is another example of one of these unique builds that I picked up at one of the annual Baltimore Antique Arms Show a few years back. Appears the attempt was to make a mid-17th century dog lock style fowler. The hardware looks all hand-made. But the lock is what is so interesting. It obviously started life as a Siler lock from Jim Chambers using what he calls a "Builders" lock. Being that the lock was assembled, but the plate left square so the builder could contour the plate in any desired fashion. Then, a dog-style safety catch was added, with a slot cut into the hammer, and a hammer stop added to the lock plate. Even a lock plate screw added to make it an earlier style three-screw lock.

Of course the safety notch was on the tumbler, so the catch and stop additions were primarily just for show. The gun was unmarked anywhere. And all that was needed was a through cleaning to put it in shooting order. It would be good to know when Jim Chambers first started offering his "Builders" lock. That might be a clue as to when it was made (?) Later on, I decided that the lock looked a bit on the smallish side compared to the overall profile of the gun. And thought this would be another one way down the list to refurbish. So I sold it to a fellow Forum member. But the lock does show the ingenuity in trying to duplicate an earlier gun using whatever was available at the time.
During the last 3-4 years, these less common type of custom guns have been showing up at auctions or otherwise offered for sale. I'm guessing that original owners who are aging or have passed away and have no off-spring with any interest. Anyway, here is a couple pics of that gun I saved:

(as a side note, I notice custom long guns and plains rifles from the 1970's and 80's showing up for sale everywhere)

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

OK. Thanks Flint and Rudyard. The reason I asked for a guess at approximate year you think the gun was made by Kit: I seem to recall that sometime during the 1980's and maybe stretching into the 1990's, there was a growing interest in replica arms that could be made to reflect patterns from say pre-1650 or so. And I don't think The Rifle Shoppe opened for business till around 1990 there about. So it would seem that during that time a matchlock like the one posted here was considered a one-off type of item created by the builder. Barrels and wood would have been available. But locks and other hardware would have to be made from scratch or improvised from something else to create the finished gun. Per the OP's post, cutting off have of the percussion bolster and welding on a hand-made pan and cover is a good example of this ingenuity.
Here is another example of one of these unique builds that I picked up at one of the annual Baltimore Antique Arms Show a few years back. Appears the attempt was to make a mid-17th century dog lock style fowler. The hardware looks all hand-made. But the lock is what is so interesting. It obviously started life as a Siler lock from Jim Chambers using what he calls a "Builders" lock. Being that the lock was assembled, but the plate left square so the builder could contour the plate in any desired fashion. Then, a dog-style safety catch was added, with a slot cut into the hammer, and a hammer stop added to the lock plate. Even a lock plate screw added to make it an earlier style three-screw lock. View attachment 185418View attachment 185419View attachment 185420Of course the safety notch was on the tumbler, so the catch and stop additions were primarily just for show. The gun was unmarked anywhere. And all that was needed was a through cleaning to put it in shooting order. It would be good to know when Jim Chambers first started offering his "Builders" lock. That might be a clue as to when it was made (?) Later on, I decided that the lock looked a bit on the smallish side compared to the overall profile of the gun. And thought this would be another one way down the list to refurbish. So I sold it to a fellow Forum member. But the lock does show the ingenuity in trying to duplicate an earlier gun using whatever was available at the time.
During the last 3-4 years, these less common type of custom guns have been showing up at auctions or otherwise offered for sale. I'm guessing that original owners who are aging or have passed away and have no off-spring with any interest. Anyway, here is a couple pics of that gun I saved:

(as a side note, I notice custom long guns and plains rifles from the 1970's and 80's showing up for sale everywhere)

Rick

Very cool example. With the debate on the future of muzzleloading (the majority of folks getting old), it will be interesting to see if that is a continuing trend.

 

[Rudyard]

We are all getting older I tried to change my name by deed poll to Peter Pan but it didn.t work I tried to stay at" 25 again" on birth days but people saw through that . I finally figured Ide allready lived three normal lives so Ile go with the 'Under the wide & starry sky' poem . My first serious archaic gun was a M locks no 14 & 15 in 1974 a caliver & a' petronel' matchlocks for the gunner of the' Golden Hinde' (Now resideing in a Winnipeg museum )The guns not him , followed by number 19 of 1974 going on Lenks a mid 17c western Europe . no 34 of 78 a Wheellock 45 cal often in my photos .N number 44 a Turkish miguelet piece in 87.with 46 of 1981 a matchlock caliver . no 64 a wheellock pistol of 1984 made for Richard Moore of Sharpes series fame sold on to a museum curator . No 75 a M lock caliver made for' Henry Kranks' as a pattern to go to India. in 86. no 78 a 45 Wheellock rifle for a NY customer in 1987, no 82 a 43 cal snap matchlock for a NZ MLAIC shooter in 88, no 84 again a Snap ml for a NZ team shooter . Same year , no 86 was a cherry stocked English lock with dog made for a Mr Volhiem but sold on to Peter Gobbles I think. In 88, 1988 saw a snap matchlock a 40 cal went to Jersey( CI ) .at Bisley , 1988 saw my own Snaphance rifle got up in Mass I put it down as 88 & a half as was just my stocking of old parts .No 96 a snapping M lock .in 1990 NZ competitor .No 98 a snap matck lock went to Jersey at Bisley . Number 99 a caliver went to a NY patron. number 104 was a late English lock cheek stocked carbine with vestigal dog .in 1991. No 108 of same year was a Snap M lock' after' a piece once own by Henry Tudor again went to Jersey (CI )..110 a 10 bore caliver with English lock of 1992.to a US patron . no 111 was & is a 50 cal early English lock with sprag like Dog made for me in92 ( I shot the other day ).no 112 a Snaphance pistol . no 117 of 93 another 40 cal Snap Match lock and again my Jersey patron at Bisley . then comes a 12 bore English lock musket sold in the US. in 93 . no 121 a an English lock pistol same year .No 124 a 40 cal snap M lock sold to a US patron & is on a Vidio.. no 122 yet another Mary Rose Snap M lock local patron . 16 bore Wm the 111d carbine one of three I've made . one went to Boston 124 another ' Mary Rose' snap M lock for US patron . in 1994. No 131 10 bore fish tailed musket US patron . No 133 a 10 bore fishtailed stocked musket . A Mr Pritchel .US patron .135 54 cal ' Mary Rose' Match lock down a to a Mr Lizard .a US patron .136 a Mr. Tinkle a wheellock but in the event remains stock . he gave up guns for some reason . 141 0f 1996 a 45 cal snap match lock for a Mr Tromners . 'after' Hans Morl curiously he didnt further correspond though I took to UK & got it proofed . So it went back to the US & sold to a noted publisher . theirs more but ime getting tired & who cares anyway ? .If I suppose it does amuse some .
Regards to them as do Rudyard