69 Roundball Revisited - Need some advice

[Gus]

Tonight I cast 50 new .680 bullets the old school way, with the old fashioned handle mold without the sprue cutter. How is the easiest and prettiest way to get the sprue off? I used wire snips, and it came out acceptable for my purposes, but nothing like a modern round ball caster.

Other than the sprue being not as pretty as I like, they came out perfect. One of the reasons for that is I'm using a thermometer now. Casting bullets without a thermometer is like baking cookies without a thermostat on your oven. It can be done with some practice, but geez, save yourself the headaches of guessing. BTW I found a great thermometer for $12. All interested go to:[url] http://www.surpluscenter.com/[/url] and run a search for 1000F and it will pull up all there 200 to 1000F meters.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Gus: If after you snip the sprues off with the wire cutters they weigh within 2 % of the average weight for the balls, go ahead and shoot them as is. A .680" RB will weigh about 420 grains. 2 % is about 8 grains, plus or minus. Its very hard to show that little difference in weight is going to change the POI all that much out of most smoothbores.

Now, If you want to get them round, then leave or put them in the mold, cold to hold them while you cut and file the sprues down closer. Than put the balls in a case tumbler, and let them rattle around for an hour or two. That will knock off all the remaining sprues, and generally leaves the ball pretty round. Then sort by weight, again. Just leave the sprue facing you as you push the ball down the muzzle onto the patching material, and the ball will fly fairly true- not like a spinning ball from a rifle-- but as good as its likely to fly out of a smoothbore gun.

 

[Gus]

Thanks, and especially the idea of the case tumbler. Got one. What type of media? All I have is the green corn cob, and its pretty old.

g

 

[Wes/Tex]

Or........

Try leaving the sprue on and tying the end of the paper cartridge to it like the old days. Figure the trailing paper must act as a rudder! :haha:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would not use any medium at all. Just put a lot of cast balls in there together, and let them bang together.

Again, I want to stress that uniformity in weight is probably more important for accuracy with that size ball than exterior condition or shape.

 

[mmahlock]

To remove the sprue nippers work better than side cutters in my experience. You may want to grind down the face of the nippers to that the cutting edge starts at the face.

As for tumbling the balls after removing the sprue, the tub tumblers used by re-loaders for cases won't do much for your balls. You need a barrel or canister rock tumbler. And as has been said, just load it up with a pound less than capacity with your balls and turn it on. Check it every hour or so the first time to determine the time required for them to get finished. Too shot a period in the tumbler and they will come out with sprues still visible and their surface looking like someone had taken a hammer to them. Too long and build up o heat from them rolling against each other will cause them to gall (form a dark powdery frost on them). When they are done right they will have shinny smooth surfaces and the sprue location will be unidentifiable. Note: If any of them have voids in them from casting they will have a noticeable dimple where the sprue was.

Best of luck. :thumbsup:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Sir Michael,
Thanks for the nippers idea. :bow: I always thought that two cutting edges passing each other is not just right for snipping sprues. I shall buy a pair and try it. Do you advise any particular size? I cast .590 balls.
volatpluvia

 

[mmahlock]

Just to be clear, this is the style I am talking about. 8 to 10 in. should be large enough.

BTW, They are similar to the design for sprue nippers created by Ezekiel Baker around 1823. His design differed a bit in that the nipper jaws were ground out so the ball fit sat inside the jaws and sprue outside and the handles also included the scissor cutter like the Rapine Bag Molds. Hope this helps. :hatsoff:

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I use a bunch of Jeff Tanner's brass moulds which do not have a sprue cutter. I ordered a set of toe nail clippers from one of those cheap o medical mailers I get several times a month. One of the cutters is made like a set of side cutter pliers with the blades curved. These work better than anything I have used. I nip about halfway through the sprue, turn the ball and start to nip on the opposite side. As I am cutting I spin the ball with my left hand. This combination nipping and twisting will leave you with a well trimmed ball. This works well for me from .388 to .675 ball moulds. You can still see the sprue area on the ball so you can load with the sprue in your prefered position.
I hope this helps. :thumbsup:

 

[Gus]

Well its a done deal. Out of the 60 balls I cast, which were .680", ~464 grain, with these MONGO sprues, reminder - I was using a Dixi mold with handles, no sprue cutter. The sprue was cut with dikes, then filed on 30 of the balls. The other 30 were snipped with dikes, filed a bit, then finished with a Dremmel tool grinder, which was actually quite quick. That way was actually the easiest, because I showed my wife how fun it was, and she did most of them. The Tom Sawyer thing all over again. :grin:

- This is how they turned out...

I measured each ball on my Hornady manual scales, and they ranged from 457 grains to 467 for the spread. It was a nice bell curve with 90% of them within the 1% (4.6 gr) range with only a few as out-liers. Half were tumbled in corncob for 2 hrs., and it didn't make a difference except for turning them green.

Thanks all.

Gus

 

[mmahlock]

What style tumbler did you use?

 

[Leonredbeard]

Sir Michael,
I believe it is the dykes cutter that I was thinking of when you said nipper. I have the bag mold made in East Greenville, PA. It has a scissors syle sprue cutter. I suppose if I used that and then used the style nippers you have it would work. But I leave a humongus flower of overflow on my balls and the dykes would do the job without a step before. But thanks anyway! :bow:
volatpluvia.

 

[Gus]

A Lyman Turbo Tumbler, I think the 600 model.

 

[xxgrampa]

gus, the media must come out before you tumble the balls. it acts as a buffer and softens the impacts.

try again with no media and no more than one layer of balls. they should come out perfectly round..

good luck and ..ttfn..grampa..

 

[mmahlock]

Well, there's your problem. :wink: You really need a tumbler that looks like this.

I've never found anyone that uses a vibration tumbler that was really satisfied with what it produced.

BTW, you just put the balls in without any media of any type. You are tumbling them against themselves to round out the imperfections (sprue). This will also locate and depress the area around any internal voids so you can see them.

 

[brubincam]

I use LEE molds and don't get sprues :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

 

[mmahlock]

That may be true but I'll wager a dime to a whole in a donut that if you tumbled those balls you'd fine a void or two.
:hatsoff:

 

[almrl]

Here's a scan of the illustration of Baker's "Mould and Clipper" from "Baker's Remarks on the Rifle," 1835 edition (reprint)

Baker's explanation.

I TAKE leave to. request you will lay before the Society a. new-invented BULLET-MOULD, which, after considerable expense and infinite labour, I have brought to perfection; and in claiming the merit of the invention, I trust the following explanation of its improvement will be satisfactory to the Society.

Firstly. The mould has a much larger counter-sink on the top, and of course holds a greater quantity of molten lead, which, as it sinks in the mould, prevents that hollowness which is generally found in balls cast from moulds in the former way, and consequently renders them more solid and far superior.

Secondly. The steel-cutter on the top of the mould is, perhaps, the greatest part of the improvement on the old cutter, as will be immediately discovered by cutting off the neck of a ball with each. My invention consists in taking off the castable or neck of the ball, AT ONCE, quite clean, and at the same time to preserve its globular shape: consequently, the labour and time which were formerly devoted in nipping and trimming, or filing off the exuberance from the ball, are by this method entirely saved, and the ball at one motion is made perfect. The double advantage of cutting the balls true, and rendering them quite solid, in so short a space of time, must be instantly perceptible to the Society, and is of essential importance to all fire-arms, but more particularly so to rifle-barrels, where the greatest accuracy is required.

Thirdly. Against the cutter is placed a small cup to hold the ball, which renders the cutting off the neck of the ball more easy and expeditious.

Fourthly. Under, and attached to the mould, is placed a solid stud, for the purpose of screwing in a vice when opportunity offers, by which the balls will be cut easier and much faster than by the hand.

 

[mmahlock]

Thanks for posting the scan of Baker's mould and clipper. I was thinking of doing the same thing but you beat me to it. :bow: