90 grs. Too much for Renegade?

[Ethan Grotheer]

Hi all, just curious what load you are using with your PRBs in a .54 renegade. I've been shooting 90 grs. Of Pyrodex 2fg and today I was getting about 6" groups at 100 yds off of my trigger stick which isn't bad but I was getting some flyers as well in the group.. Should I lower it to 85 grs or 80. I realize human error is probable but I also had a one got about 7" off target at 50 yds so I'm just curious if I'm loading too hot?

Thanks,
Ethan

 

[rdillion]

One thing about black powder is that over loading it usually just results in blowing unburnt powder on the ground. That is when loading within reason. My old 54 renegade load was around 80 to 90 grains of powder. The rifling in the TC barrels is pretty shallow so if you have any wear you may be stripping out of the grooves. You want to use the least amount of powder to get good groups. Once you get too much you will start to see the groups open up or flyers will begin to occur. When you get to this point you know you're at max load and you can work down from there. Good luck and all I can say is practice, practice, practice. That "just right" load will find you.

Good Shooting
Ross :thumbsup:

 

[VEARL]

I shoot 80 Gr. of 2F KIK BP in mine. I use a wad over powder to help from burning the lubed patch. I shoot a .530 RB with a lubed .015 patch.
I am able to keep a 3 inch group at 50 yds and a decent huntable group at 75 yds. Of course at my age, I'm happy with that.

 

[nchawkeye]

What do your patches look like after shooting???

Any discussion on patched ball accuracy should start with patching and lube used...They impart the spin on the ball and if they are destroyed, accuracy suffers...

Try putting a tarp about 10 steps in front of the muzzle to catch them...

 

[Elkeater]

You might weigh your balls and reject any that are out of a 1 grain window.

 

[Rat Trapper]

No 90 grains is not too much, what matters is what your rifle likes best. If you are shooting a 50 caliber you can go up to 100 grains. Your flyers are most likely caused by patch failures. So like others have said check your patches.

 

[nkbj]

In the seventies my brother tack driver load was 120 grains of GOEX FFg and the red stripe with flowers ticking that was made in the Carolinas, with neatsfoot oil. And his Renegade was an awesome tack driver. He had one of the original TC ladder tang sights and after he bedded the barrel and filed the sight base to seat on the tang he made holes touch at 100yards.

 

[George T.]

My T/C 54 requires .018 patches with the .530 balls. Are you casting these balls? If so try weighing them. By the way my hunting load is 110 grains of 2F and it shoots very well.

Geo. T.

 

[nwtradegun]

pyrodex is herasy this a traditonal site use black powder. i rec. shutzen or swiss

 

[jamesthomas]

Not really, In some areas blackpowder may be hard to come by, or the O.P. nay not know that you can order the real stuff online. Korde, you can order the real stuff online, Try Powders Inc. they're the cheapest an easiest to deal with. Also there is a "sticky" above the "Shooting Accessories" forum that will give you a list of blackpowder vendors.

 

[ldykeman]

Here is a link to the TC manual for sidelocks and it has load info in it: http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf

 

[dbutch]

Is this a T/C barrel? if so rifling is shallow.
Try less powder...try more powder....
Do your patches hold togeather?
Enough lube on patch?
Have you tried an overpowder card or wad?
Are you seating the patched ball on the powder consistanly?
What is the condition of your nipple?
What primers are you useing?
Could just be a less than stellar barrel?
Have someone else shoot it at the same yardage.
Should be able to get a ragged hole at 85 yards 2 " at 100 yards.
Any chance of shooting different powder?
Stick with it and report back so we all learn.
Good luck and keep notes....keep it fun!

 

[Ethan Grotheer]

Couple questions:
There were topics about Triple 7 so I thought I was safe to ask
I've always been under the impression that Pyrodex was hotter than standard black powder so required a lesser charge for the same amount of performance, and that it was better in resisting the elements and easier on the clean up.
If I'm naive or misguided, I am open to suggestions and willing to go to blackpowder

2
This gun has a Lyman 57sm peep site on it. I've never used a peep site in my entire life so is it possible that this could be my issue?
I'm also just shooting off of a bipod.

But I will try to collect a patch and see what I find.

Thank you, everyone, for all the info. I've been in and out of blackpowder for a while but I have a lot to learn still, so thank you.

 

[Ethan Grotheer]

Also,
I'm using TC bore butter and really trying to liberally apply it to the patch before loading.

 

[gearheart]

Lube is one of the variables that you can play with. The type of lube and the amount will have an effect. Patch material and the thickness of it is another. Ball diameter, either 530 or 535 is another. That leaves powder: brand, granulation, and amount for you to adjust.
Somewhere in the synthesis of those variables is your ideal load. Your challenge is to find it. Keep copious notes and change only one variable at a time. This gives you lots of excuses to go shooting. :grin:

 

[roundball]

Hi all, just curious what load you are using with your PRBs in a .54 renegade. I've been shooting 90 grs. Of Pyrodex 2fg and today I was getting about 6" groups at 100 yds off of my trigger stick which isn't bad but I was getting some flyers as well in the group.. Should I lower it to 85 grs or 80. I realize human error is probable but I also had a one got about 7" off target at 50 yds so I'm just curious if I'm loading too hot?

Thanks,
Ethan

FWIW, I used 90grns Goex 3F in my T/C Hawkens for years, very accurate...wouldn't think the powder charge is causing the flyers.

 

[Ethan Grotheer]

I believe it's a .18 patch and it's a .530 rb

 

[rodwha]

Pyrodex seems to perform much like regular Goex and many other BP's. Swiss and Olde Eynsford are higher performing BP's that give velocities much more like Triple 7, though I've never heard anyone state those needed to be reduced as they do for Triple 7.

Pyrodex is a grain (volume) for grain equivalent to typical BP and does not need to be reduced.

Pyrodex is my least favorite powder to use.

 

[Leatherbark]

As an experiment use spit on your patches instead of the "liberally applied bore butter" or let the bore butter patches dry some first. Nothing against bore butter, but you don't need to apply it heavily. Really slick lubes might be a possible cause of velocity variations.

Bob

 

[mtech]

I've never had any accuracy with Bore Butter. It ought to be taken off the market. Do your self a favor and buy a copy of Dutch Schultz's Black Powder Accuracy system. In the mean time, try spit on your patches like leatherbark says and I bet your groups will shrink :thumbsup: