A friend needs CVA Hawken flintlock help with ignition issue

[Larry (Omaha)]

I am an avid flint shooter, but know nothing about CVAs' Hawken flintlock. I was at a shoot last Sunday with a friend shooting his CVA Hawken. He mentioned his desire to have ignition similar to my rifle. Because I know nothing about the CVA breech area and or problems (if there are) I want ask here for help. He says that it is not as good as mine. My flintlock ignition is pretty good! He has given me this info:
CVA flintlock 50 cal Hawken. .490 lead RB, pillow ticking/.020 measured with digital caliper, Goex 3 F charge, 4 F prime. After powder is poured down, he is slapping the sides of the rifle to settle it in. He says the rifle sparks well, but is having a slight delay in ignition. He has tried powder in pan without using a pick and also with a pick. He is not a pilgrim, although he is still learning like us all.
Assuming there is no crud/blockage in the breech, what could we suggest to help?
Thanks in advance.
Flintlocklar

 

[Kansas Jake]

I have a Traditions flintlock and it has a breech similar to CVA's. They are finicky in flintlocks. It seems the narrow patent breech area needs to be spotlessly clean and dry to give fast, reliable ignition. I find with mine it will do well for the first 3-4 shots and then becomes harder with hangfires, or pan flashes. I've found if I tap the butt or slap the side as he does I get faster more reliable ignition. I think fouling inhibits powder flow into the breech area after a few shots. Other issues is amount of powder in the pan. Some guns like a little other more. Some do best with the powder away from the flash hole and other closer. Also, what size is his touch hole. All of these are factors.

 

[SDSmlf]

What is the touchhole size? I prefer 5/64” diameter, particularly with a chambered breech, for fast ignition.

 

[flntlokr]

I did an overhaul on a CVA a few years back. I drilled out the vent, and installed a liner with a venturi 1/16" hole. no misfires now.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I don’t mean to beat on your friend but buying an inexpensive flintlock is to my mind poor economy. He sounds like he’s doing all the right things but the design of the rifle is the problem. A larger touch hole may help. The answer is a better gun. You are one of the more knowledgeable folks here and could guide him in this respect.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I would suggest that your friend use a 22 caliber or 30 caliber mop or nylon brush to clean the mouth of the breech chamber after wiping to control fouling in the barrel. Fouling will build up and start to block the touch hole. Use one of those little flossing brushes to wipe the touch hole. The bristles on those little brushes can clean some of the fouling from the internal passages of the powder chamber in the breech. Pipe cleaners can be too big unless the touch hole is drilled out to 5/64" Opening the touch hole with a #50 drill (0.700") may also help.

 

[Tumbledown]

Could be too much powder in the pan. It should be below the touch hole. I have a Traditions Kentucky flintlock, I find a small amount of primer, evenly distributed and close to the touch hole, works best.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Nearly every commercial rifle I have ever had had ignition delays to some degree. I removed the touch hole liner on all & chamfered the inner side, then enlarged the touch hole to .067" with a #51 bit. Ignition is now instantaneous with all.

 

[Tumbledown]

Nearly every commercial rifle I have ever had had ignition delays to some degree. I removed the touch hole liner on all & chamfered the inner side, then enlarged the touch hole to .067" with a #51 bit. Ignition is now instantaneous with all.

A 1/16" bit measures .0625", probably just as good and a lot easier to find than a #51.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most of the small specialty hardware stores such as ACE or True Value will carry number drills. For that matter Harbor Freight carries a full set of number drills, generally in stock.

 

[cal.43]

if this flintlock was made by Dikar, their special touch hole screw works like a fuse, to small on size and to long to the charge

 

[Marshhawk]

This might be too basic, but way back when I got my CVA it I had ignition problems. Turned the flint so the bevel faces the pan. That made amazing difference. I use 3f in the pan and as main charge.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Has anyone removed the patent breech and enlarged the breech area from the inside? Is that even possible to do?

I've never been a fan of patent breeches and don't see an advantage to them. You've got to fill the tiny ante chamber with powder then the flash hole enters into said tiny chamber before the main powder charge. I prefer the straight breech as on most kit guns. This way the flash hole enters directly into the main breech instead of the small ante chamber first.

 

[Sparkitoff]

Spend $185 and get an L&R lock and make the touch hole 1/16th with a coned liner. Fixed all issues with a CVA Mt. Rifle for me.....

 

[mooman76]

I'm not a big fan of the CVA patient type breeches but neither have I had issues with them. Must just be the way I load or something.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

My not having any experience with the CVA flintlock, or even from the get go how the breech area is constructed, has put me behind the 8 ball. All the input I have received here has been a big help! Outside of getting another rifle ( I think he has a funds issue) I feel some improvements can be obtained for him.
Thanks a bunch guys!
Flintlocklar

 

[nhmoose]

Drill the touch hole bigger.

 

[Tumbledown]

My not having any experience with the CVA flintlock, or even from the get go how the breech area is constructed, has put me behind the 8 ball. All the input I have received here has been a big help! Outside of getting another rifle ( I think he has a funds issue) I feel some improvements can be obtained for him.
Thanks a bunch guys!
Flintlocklar

The patent breech is basically a cone-shaped recess instead of a flat breech wall at the plug, with a channel from the touch hole to the cone tip. The result is something of a shaped charge and is supposed to give faster and directed ignition and explosion of the powder. It tends to be more sensitive to fouling. I have a Traditions with a patent breech, I take 6 or 7 shots before I run a cleaning patch, then I run a pick in the touch hole. I have not had much issue with ignition. If I do have a problem, a little powder pushed into the touch hole helps.

 

[tallpine]

, I take 6 or 7 shots before I run a cleaning patch,

If you swab after every shot you are going to have problems with the tiny patent breech on Traditions rifles. Some one on here once described patent breeches as the spawn of the devil. I thought that was a dead on description.

 

[TreeMan]

Widen the pan a little and install an OX-yoke touch hole liner.