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What, if any, is the difference between a rifle and a rifled musket? Does it have something to do with the caliber - as in: after .69 ,or larger, the term rifled musket is appropriate? Or are the two terms interchangable?
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robinghewitt
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A musket is a soldier's gun. Rifled musket means a soldier's rifle, rather than any old rifle :thumbsup:
Blizzard of '93
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from my understanding the rifled musket is a military-type firearm with a bayonet attachment.
rifle is generally thought off as a civlian or maybe militia man's arm (rifled long arm of course)
rifle is generally thought off as a civlian or maybe militia man's arm (rifled long arm of course)
RedFeather
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As far as I can tell, a musket is a large caliber, smoothbore gun. Guess you could call a fowler a musket but, as said, most are associated with a military longarm. Rifles of the same period were usually a bit smaller caliber and not smoothbore. There were military rifles like the English Baker, for example, and those are not referred to as muskets.
The rifled musket is the military smoothbore with the addition of rifling, primarily to stabilize a hollow-based Minie bullet ("minnie ball"). Sort of a transitional step in military technology.
Again, this ain't official. :winking:
The rifled musket is the military smoothbore with the addition of rifling, primarily to stabilize a hollow-based Minie bullet ("minnie ball"). Sort of a transitional step in military technology.
Again, this ain't official. :winking:
Stophel
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A musket is a military gun used by regular line infantry. Generally meant to take a bayonet. It matters not whether it it rifled or smooth. Earlier guns are smoothbored, of course, but, as was said, with the invention of the Minie ball, they could then be made rifled, hence the term "rifle-musket", used simply to differentiate them from smoothbore muskets. There was even an 1895 Winchester Musket lever action rifle that was sent to the Russians. The usage of the term "musket" pretty much died by 1900.
Tumblernotch
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Well, there's often some confusion when it comes to these terms, especially rifled musket and rifle musket which are two different weapons.
"Musket" of course describes a long barreled smoothbore muzzleloading weapon either flint or percussion. It fires a round ball. The barrel length is generally 39 inches or longer, usually no more than 45 inches. Remember though that during the Revolution and earlier a carbine had a barrel as long as 42 inches. That's a whole new topic. And of course there were the civilian "muskets" which basically were fowling pieces that followed a military "pattern". And some of these were adapted to take a bayonet. The MinuteMan was always ready to hunt or go to war.
A "rifled musket" is an originally smoothbored musket that has been rifled at a later date to use the elongated expanding ball, otherwise known as the Minie. (In Europe the Thouvenin System was also used which is a different way of expanding a round ball). Usually, when rifled, the musket was also altered to percussion, although the US did rifle a few flintlock M1835 muskets as an experiment. Thousands of M1816, M1835 flint muskets were rifled and percussioned in the 1840's and 50's. Quite a few percussion smoothbore M1842's were also rifled.
In 1855 the US adopted an all new percussion "rifle-musket". This is a weapon that was designed from the ground up as a rifle of musket length and caliber. The caliber was smaller than the old smoothbores (.58 vs. .69). The barrels on these guns were 2 inches shorter (40 inches) than the smoothbores. Now the Europeans were doing the same thing at the time, in fact were a little ahead of the US. The British smoothbores gave way to the P51's and finally the P53's which were similiar in caliber and barrel length (.577 and 39 inches). France, Belgium and the German States were all following in a similiar fashion, though most of their altered muskets were of even bigger calibers. And all experimented with different percussion ignition systems though the standard percussion system was the norm. The US, on the M1855 used the Maynard tape primer. This lock would also accept the common musket cap and on the M1861 they did away with the Maynard system.
The military "rifle" at least in the US, was basically a rifle-musket with a shorter barrel. In the US, the standard was 33 inches. And instead of an angular socket bayonet, used a yataghan style or as most people call it, a sword bayonet. This gave the soldier pretty much the same reach with his weapon as the soldier with the musket and socket bayonet. And of course the sword bayonet could double as a short sword.
With the end of the muzzleloading era, the term musket pretty much disappeared as a description of the weapon though the term remained in manuals for years describing the use of long arms. (I read somewhere about a soldier long after this period being condemned for some crime. He was to be "shot to death by musketry". I believe it was someone in the British Army).
There are a few exceptions though. Both Sharps and Spencer made and sold to the US Ordnance Dept. breechloading "muskets". These were 3 band breechloading and repeating rifles but were designated as "muskets".
We used to have "musket matches" at our club (I'd like to get started again soon), and these were for rifle or rifled-muskets, though if someone wanted to, they could use a smoothbore (which rarely happened). Any length barrel was legal, which meant that carbines and musketoons could be used as long as they were muzzleloading. The only requirement was that the minimum caliber was .54. If you look at the history of military shoulder arms, especially in this country, you'll find that .54 was the minimum for muzzleloading guns that were adopted by the US Army and put into production.
And after the Allin conversion was adopted and the caliber was reduced to .50 and then .45 you have true "rifles".
I hope nobody fell asleep before they got to the end of this epistle!
:yakyak:
"Musket" of course describes a long barreled smoothbore muzzleloading weapon either flint or percussion. It fires a round ball. The barrel length is generally 39 inches or longer, usually no more than 45 inches. Remember though that during the Revolution and earlier a carbine had a barrel as long as 42 inches. That's a whole new topic. And of course there were the civilian "muskets" which basically were fowling pieces that followed a military "pattern". And some of these were adapted to take a bayonet. The MinuteMan was always ready to hunt or go to war.
A "rifled musket" is an originally smoothbored musket that has been rifled at a later date to use the elongated expanding ball, otherwise known as the Minie. (In Europe the Thouvenin System was also used which is a different way of expanding a round ball). Usually, when rifled, the musket was also altered to percussion, although the US did rifle a few flintlock M1835 muskets as an experiment. Thousands of M1816, M1835 flint muskets were rifled and percussioned in the 1840's and 50's. Quite a few percussion smoothbore M1842's were also rifled.
In 1855 the US adopted an all new percussion "rifle-musket". This is a weapon that was designed from the ground up as a rifle of musket length and caliber. The caliber was smaller than the old smoothbores (.58 vs. .69). The barrels on these guns were 2 inches shorter (40 inches) than the smoothbores. Now the Europeans were doing the same thing at the time, in fact were a little ahead of the US. The British smoothbores gave way to the P51's and finally the P53's which were similiar in caliber and barrel length (.577 and 39 inches). France, Belgium and the German States were all following in a similiar fashion, though most of their altered muskets were of even bigger calibers. And all experimented with different percussion ignition systems though the standard percussion system was the norm. The US, on the M1855 used the Maynard tape primer. This lock would also accept the common musket cap and on the M1861 they did away with the Maynard system.
The military "rifle" at least in the US, was basically a rifle-musket with a shorter barrel. In the US, the standard was 33 inches. And instead of an angular socket bayonet, used a yataghan style or as most people call it, a sword bayonet. This gave the soldier pretty much the same reach with his weapon as the soldier with the musket and socket bayonet. And of course the sword bayonet could double as a short sword.
With the end of the muzzleloading era, the term musket pretty much disappeared as a description of the weapon though the term remained in manuals for years describing the use of long arms. (I read somewhere about a soldier long after this period being condemned for some crime. He was to be "shot to death by musketry". I believe it was someone in the British Army).
There are a few exceptions though. Both Sharps and Spencer made and sold to the US Ordnance Dept. breechloading "muskets". These were 3 band breechloading and repeating rifles but were designated as "muskets".
We used to have "musket matches" at our club (I'd like to get started again soon), and these were for rifle or rifled-muskets, though if someone wanted to, they could use a smoothbore (which rarely happened). Any length barrel was legal, which meant that carbines and musketoons could be used as long as they were muzzleloading. The only requirement was that the minimum caliber was .54. If you look at the history of military shoulder arms, especially in this country, you'll find that .54 was the minimum for muzzleloading guns that were adopted by the US Army and put into production.
And after the Allin conversion was adopted and the caliber was reduced to .50 and then .45 you have true "rifles".
I hope nobody fell asleep before they got to the end of this epistle!
:yakyak:
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As with many words, the usage and meaning have evolved with time. In the 18th & 1st 1/2 of the 19th century, the musket tended to be a soldier's weapon, typically with a round barrel that had a wall thickness that tapered to a relatively thin muzzle. Military long arms were almost always fitted to carry a bayonet and the barrels were not (yet) rifled. Due to slower loading, the rifle tended to be a civilian weapon and as such, not fitted for a bayonet. The rifle barrels were most commonly octagonal in section and of a uniform or slightly tapered or slightly tapered & then flared (swamped barrel) wall. In the mid-19th century, the minie ball was developed, which, in combination with a rifled musket barrel, allowed the soldier to have both the speed of loading of a musket with the accuracy of a rifle. Since the breech loader came into widespread use soon after the development of the minie ball, the minie ball does not seem to have had any significant use in civilian weapons. There are fine points regarding rifle, smooth rifle, rifled musket and musket-rifle but this post is getting long & hopefully 
the basic distinction is made.
the basic distinction is made.Without question the best, most concise explanation I've ever seen on this subject... :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
Particularly the subtle distinction between a rifled-musket and a rifle-musket...never knew that and had I not seen it in print and merely heard it spoken I never would have caught the slight difference.
Thanks :thumbsup:
Particularly the subtle distinction between a rifled-musket and a rifle-musket...never knew that and had I not seen it in print and merely heard it spoken I never would have caught the slight difference.
Thanks :thumbsup:
RedFeather
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ps - Thanks for calling them a rose. While many may not find them attractive as a Kentucky, I still like mine. :hatsoff:
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Wonderful answers, and answered in ways that I actually understand. Outstanding! I hope that someone asks me this question now :winking: . If not - I will have to manufacture situations in which the topic comes up. Many thanks to all.
Tumblernotch
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Thankee Roundball. I didn't mean for it to be as long as it was, but I never have been able to explain something in a simple way. As I go along I'm always afraid I'll leave something important or at least relative to the subject out and I have to stick it in. I've always been fascinated by the development of US military shoulder arms. I wish I had the time and money to invest in more study and to become more knowledgeable in them.
By the way, I was puzzled for years by the terms rifled-musket, altered musket and rifle-musket. I finally got it figured out several years ago and always try to differentiate between the three. Understanding old ordnance reports becomes a little easier when you figure out what the heck they were talking about. Sometimes a feller still wants to pull what hair he has left out when he reads some of their inter-departmental mail.
I need to shut up. I'm gittin' windy agin!
By the way, I was puzzled for years by the terms rifled-musket, altered musket and rifle-musket. I finally got it figured out several years ago and always try to differentiate between the three. Understanding old ordnance reports becomes a little easier when you figure out what the heck they were talking about. Sometimes a feller still wants to pull what hair he has left out when he reads some of their inter-departmental mail.
I need to shut up. I'm gittin' windy agin!
