A welding question

[chipper]

I'm trying to perfect the craft of making tomahawk heads. I bought a bunch of low carb flat stock. I welded a sandwiched piece of high carbon steel band saw blade into the bit by bringing it up to welding temperature, sprinkling weld ez, and making the weld. My head showed afterwards in testing that the high carbon piece did little or no good in making the head hard. I later went on to using case hardening powder and got a satisfactory head but not one I'm willing to say is a success.
Do I use a larger piece of high carbon steel?
If you've done this, I would appreciate the help.
I'm using hardwood charcoal a Lively washbucket forge and a hand blower. I didn't do anything special to the metal, I just cut it, bent it and forge welded it together. No grinding or cleaning or wire brushing, just heat and beat.
I've done this with old files and lawn mower blades and it works great.

Regards
Loyd Shindelbower
Loveland Colorado

 

[LRB]

Loyd, you did heat treat it, right? The only answers I can think of is that you burned the carbon out forging it? Or the heat treat did not take.
After re-reading, I suspect you need thicker steel, maybe 1080/84, but even the saw blade should have hardened. Tell me more.

 

[chipper]

The part that failed was the end where the weld is critical. The low carbon piece was rolling back. I suspect the piece of bandsaw blade was too small it was the size of a bandaid about 1/16 of an inch thick.

Do I need to clean the metal/grind before I try to weld it? I've never done that on files or other material.

regards

 

[ameling]

Too many possibilities here.

First would be that saw blade. What actual metal alloy is it? Just carbon and iron? Other metal alloy's mixed in can affect how it welds and heat-treats.

Next, is that saw blade all that same alloy, or is it a bi-metal blade? Some saw blades only have the high carbon tool steel on the teeth, with soft iron for the rest of the blade. So once you knock/cut the teeth off, you are left with just common soft iron.

And then things can go wrong in the actual welding process. High carbon tool steel welds at a different temperature than soft iron. So you have to work out a balance between them to get the welds right. And that could mean burning some of the carbon out of the saw blade insert. Plus some carbon can ... migrate ... from the saw blade into the softer iron outside. It isn't much, but can affect things.

Plus some of the soft iron outside could have been stretched on down past the carbon steel insert during the forging and welding - leaving the edge just being that soft iron from both sides welded together. Or the steel bit might have shifted back from the edge during that welding. So it would then require grinding the edge back some more to get into it enough to reach that steel bit.

And sometimes you just didn't do that little ... forge welding dance right ... and the creatures of the forge just decided NO this time!

One other thing to remember. The very early trade axes and hawks did not have steel bits welded into their cutting edges. They were just made from plain wrought iron. Yes, they did not stay "razor sharp" for as long as many people want, but they did stay sharp enough long enough for a working tool. Many people are surprised at how well an all wrought iron axe/hawk or even knife will work when compared to ones with carbon steel cutting edges. Gerry Barker even had and used an all wrought iron hot-cut hardy in his anvil - all those many years ago when he was doing 1760's French Colonial blacksmithing!

Just some rambling thoughts to ponder.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[JamesG]

Sometimes the softer metal well move faster then the core or harder steel well. You well have to grind file the metal off. My suggestion is investigate the head. Take some metal off the blade annaul three time and then normalelize the steel.High heat well make grain growth. Hope it works out for you. Same thought as Mikey said.

 

[chipper]

As allways, you and Wick come up with the wisdom needed to get the job done. I much appreciate it. I'll start next time with a known substance like a file chunk and try that.

Regards
Loyd Shindebower

 

[Troy Allen Christianson]

I tried to use a saw blade to make some Damascus knife blanks. I took an old dull band saw blade from the scrap bin at work and sandwiched it between standard cold rolled mild steel. After forge welding the steel together I thought for a second "Hey that was too easy!" I made a blade out of the piece and it would not harden. I then realized that the saw blade was only mild steel with hardened teeth. I guess one lives and learns. I think your idea to use a piece of file as the edge will work just fine. Good Luck :thumbsup: