Accuracy vs different types of lubes???

[PeteA]

Another newbie here trying to consume and understand as much as possible.

I have a 20 year old 50 cal CVA percussion Hawken.1:48 twist. Shooting .490 rb with .015 lubed patches over a 70gr load of pyrodex. I've been to the to the range a couple times and put about 50 rounds through her, with 20 year old patches. I'm new to shooting any type of firearm but within a couple sessions and with the guidance of some of my in line shooting buddies I'm shooting 3.5 inch groups at 50 yards. Might not be up to the standards of most here but I feel pretty good about my start. So now to my question. I purchased new patches and they are different from the originals I had. In fact the company that made the original patches no longer exsists. The old patches are .015 and has a very liquid greasy lube. The new patches are Ox-Bow patches and are more of a wax like lube. Will the type of lube affect accuracy much? I also purchased a couple yards of pillow ticking and made up a batch of moose milk from a recipe on this site.

So I have a few things to try out at my next range session:
Original patches, .015 with .490 ball baseline
Ox-Bow patches, .015 with .490 ball
Pillow ticking, not sure of the thickness, could be .018 with liquid moose milk and .490 ball
Pillow ticking with Wonder Lube 1000 with .490 ball

Thanks in advance gents. This site is great and your insight is much appreciated.

 

[mooman76]

Yes they will effect accuracy but there are so many combos and every gun id different so it's kind of a try and see thing. Some work better than others on average but I have not tried allot of different kinds myself. Old patches don't tend to work as well especially with old lube. Lube can break down patches over time plus lube usually tends to dry out.

 

[Spikebuck]

Not only can the type of lube make a difference, but the quantity of any particular lube as well.

If what you are calling Ox-Bow are really Ox-Yoke, then the prelubed version of those is already using the Wonderlube 1000 you mention you are going to try on some dry patches you have.

You don't need to slobber lube on a patch...a little goes a long ways.

Being very consistent in lube is one of the tenants of Dutch Schultz's system (you can do a search for it as it's been discussed a lot on this forum.)

Try various lubes, quantities, and patch thickness and keep good notes (I keep targets well noted in files for each gun) and you'll find your best match. At 50 yards, you should be able to get to ragged hole/clover leaf groups from a good rest. Have fun!

 

[sdhunter]

Another lube that you might want to try that has worked well for me and is super cheap and easily obtained is pure olive oil. Just make sure you don't buy virgin or extra virgin olive oil as that is only good for salads.

 

[Jim C]

Just a thought here...You also might want to get a box of .495 balls and try those as well. Many yrs ago when I bought my Lyman Great Plains .50 I started out with 490's and couldn't get a decent grouping with any patch thickness/material type/lube type. I bought a box of .495's, and those with a .015 spit patch have been hitting tree rats in the head ever since. She'll shoot five shots into one ragged hole at 50 yards from the bench.

 

[rushlake1]

Pete here's some observations in my learning curve shooting patched round balls with real black powder in rifled barrels..
The less amount of grease type lube the better--think bore condition after the shot.

When shooting a slippery lube I needed to up the powder charge to get the same poi.

tight patch ball load grouped better= patch weave imprint on pulled ball.

The type-brand of powder matters..some just burn cleaner..In my calibers and barrels.

A well polished crown is a must.

Shy away from packaged prelubed patches.(due to age) how old are they?

Patch lube matters..the amount of lube matters.

Have bench shot the following lubes..
moose milk,bear oil,bear grease,mink oil,T/C 1000 lube,Mr. Flintlock lube(old Leigh Valley)Windsheild washer fluid,spit,water,Hoppe's lube,and countless home made concoctions....
Currently lubing with Hoppe's lube..using a wet patch.

Because I shoot a tight patch ball combo I have seen the majority of the lube compressed out of the patch while loading.

I don't need a mallet to load..just a bump with a short starter due to the polished crown.

My bores get swabbed by the a patched ball while seating on the powder.

Consistency in loading matters.

Keep at it you will find your happy load.
soon they will all be touching at 50 yards.
Please post when everything falls into place.

Happy shooting....Dan

 

[Dr5x]

Spikebuck
I always thought a slicker lube was best but in experimentation I discovered that the less lubrication the better. You want a bit of resistance to allow the pressure of the rising gas pressure to be a bit more complete before the patched ball leaves the barrel.
A slick patch will have the ball begin to exit as soon as the powder begins to burn. It happens fast but it is still a procedure.
The consistency of the lubrication eliminates vertical variation giving you a string of hits up and down the face of the target.

I am now down to about 3 printed sets of my System, in future will be all digital.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[MSW]

Hi, PeteA, and welcome to the highly addictive world of BP shooting ...

the ball / patch / load combination is, to my mind, the secret (if one might call it that) of BP accuracy. unlike cartridge shooters, who are pretty much stuck with whatever comes out of the box, ml shooters run handloads each and every time ...

there are, therefore, nearly as many 'secret recipes' for patch lube as there are shooters ... I am not a big fan of the ready- made stuff, because it's been my experience that their quality control is not what it might be: these companies are in business to make a profit for their shareholders, after all.

I would recommend that you get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' method ... it's about the best accessory you can get, and if you follow his instructions, your groups will shrink. read the material several times before you go to the range.
here's a link to his website: http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/



you'll also need a micrometer for measuring the thickness of your patching material. I use a 'cheapie' which came from harbor freight - they're about twenty bucks, and unless you get luck at a yard sale, that's probably about the least expensive one you can get.
here's a link: http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html

whatever else you do, bring a notebook to the range, use five or seven shots groups (not three shot groups) and change only variable at a time. (I know this sound insultingly simple, but I've seen people who otherwise looked as though they understood what was going on change three things at once and then couldn't figure out what to do next)

good luck, and


make good smoke!

 

[Crewdawg445]

Welcome!

Well, in terms of patch lube I've personally tried many, what I've settled on and what has proven for me to be the most consistent is mink tallow. Very lightly coated patches, all my rifles very much like mink tallow, cheap and very friendly in cold temps. Works great for other uses as well, so it's definitely a duel purpose lube. Beauty of this hobby, there's a zillion combos, just need to find what works for you! :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here's :2

There are 3 basic types of lubes
1. liquid, oily or watery
2. greasy or pasty
3. waxy, solid, or dry

My experience has been that type 2 (greasy or pasty) is the worst. It is messy to apply and tends to increase fouling and decrease accuracy.
I have also found it easiest to lube patches as needed rather than lubing in advance. Lubing in advance can cause inconsistencies in the lube over time and increases the potential for contamination.

Spit or saliva is by far my personal favorite.
But it doesn't fit every application.
My second favorite is a mixture of beeswax and olive oil mixed to the consistency of refrigerated butter. placing the patch between my thumb and the lube while gently rotating the patch in a circular motion, will liberate and apply the proper amount of lube.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Oh I completely forgot to mention spit!!! Another fine, cheap and effective patch lube without a doubt.

 

[PeteA]

Thanks so much for all the great information and insights gents.Looks like I need to get some serious range time in. Looking forward to an incredible journey.

 

[Dr5x]

to MSW,
The all digital copies of All my material are not quite ready for distribution so I have some quickie prints to send out with the promise of sending to the full Digital copy when its available.

There is a new movie out The Revenent which I think involves the use of muzzleloading rifle(s). Am curious to see how that gets screwed up Hollywood Style

I remember the Davy Crocket Series where the flintlock was fired electrically whenever our hero pulled the trigger, No faith in flint.

Dutch

 

[PeteA]

Hey gents, I just wanted to say thank you to all for the great advise and fantastic insight. I also wanted to report back on my latest range session because thinks seem to really be falling into place thanks to you all.

I shot a number of patches and lubes this weekend the two that preformed best were .015 pre-lubed Ox Yoke patches and diy pillow ticking, I believe .018, with liquid moose milk. The moose milk is a combination of Castor Oil, Murphys Oil Soap, alcohol and and water.

I had a group of at least 8-9 shots touching in a 2.5 inch oval,1.5-2 inches above my 6 o'clock POA at 50 yards. Our range is stingy on changing targets so it was pretty shot up.
I reteived my patches and the pillow ticking patches looked like they could almost be reused! The Ox Yoke had some small holes but still preformed very well. Both of these combos seemed to be a bit tighter then to short start then amy previous combos but once started theh seemed tomseat well.I was shooting a .490 ball, over 70gr of pyrodex. I also stabbed with 2 windex patches and one dry patch between all shot.

One other adjustment I made was to paint a small floor orange bead on Mt front sight. This was a vast improvement for my visibility of my open sights.

So next weekend I hope to be back at it and experiment with a few different loads. Im a little hesitent to move away from 70gr because I can't image I could get the group tighter.

Thx again gents.

 

[Walks with fire]

I liked the Hoppe #9 plus so much in the summer I wanted to use it in the winter but it doesn't hold up in freezing weather very well. Not one to give up; I just saturated the patches and let them dry and used them for winter shooting that way. The lubed dry patch worked great.

I really like that stuff.

 

[hanshi]

I liked the Hoppe #9 plus so much in the summer I wanted to use it in the winter but it doesn't hold up in freezing weather very well. Not one to give up; I just saturated the patches and let them dry and used them for winter shooting that way. The lubed dry patch worked great.

I really like that stuff.

Me too!

 

[airborne1]

Is this the Hoppes #9 formulated for blackpowder, or, for centerfire? Thanks!

 

[Tom Compton]

I'm using 9+ or 9 Black Powder as it's now called on the range with good results. I use a grease type for hunting - mink oil or Frontier.
TC

 

[Walks with fire]

It's the black powder formula.